EP 4 Tiya Coleman

This episode we talk with Tia Coleman, a long-term Burning Man participant and leader who has served as a Regional Contact for Las Vegas since 2004. The conversation traces Coleman’s history with the event from her first trip in 1998, exploring how her background in theater and the arts drew her to the desert for authentic self-expression. As a member of the Meta Regional Committee, she explains her dedication to global community building, conflict resolution, and fostering accurate information to protect the culture’s reputation. The dialogue also features a nostalgic comparison of the festival’s evolution, noting shifts in technology, demographics, and social habits over the decades. Ultimately, Coleman emphasizes the importance of diversity and inclusion, inviting underrepresented groups to claim their space within the "burnoverse" and utilize the event as a catalyst for creative transformation.

Transcript

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact of Burning Man up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man.

Hello and welcome to the shadow of the man. I'm your host, Andy. That Andy, today our guest is Tia Coleman. I'm saying it right. Tia. It's not Tia, right?

No, it is correct. It's Tia Coleman.

Tia Colin. Yes. Well, welcome to the show.

Awesome. Thank you for having me.

So, Tia, so you are the longtime like one one of the longtime Las Vegas regional contacts. Correct. And

I am.

And you've also you've been on the meta regional committee. Have you been on it since the beginning or How long?

Oh, no. There are there are the ground breaking folk from was it groundbreaking folks who've been in there longer than me? No. Um, I've been on the meta regional contact committee since 2017. Uh, 2017.

Oh, okay. And what was the first time you went to Burning Man? What year did you first go?

Um, my first year was Oh gosh, I got a date. Um, 1998. 198

98. Ah, old time.

That was my first year.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, we can talk about like the details of Brady experience a little bit later, but it be it's one uh to get a little like the background on you like who the su who are who are you? Where did you come from? How did it all begin?

Um well, I was uh born in Buffalo, New York. And I uh lived there for a few years and then my family traed leveled about the United States. Um, at one point in time I ended up uh living in Las Vegas, Nevada, where I attended uh high school for a few years.

And then after that, I was off into the world to explore myself and what I could bring to the world. So, I went to college um in Utah. Uh I went uh to it's it's called it had another name at the time, but it's Southern Utah University. now and it was

a home of

the Utah Shakespeare's hub. So

And then you landed up about back in Las Vegas.

I did. Um that would have been 1998. So the same year I went to Birmingham. I ended up uh being asked by my employer at the time, which was Tower Records, to come out and run one of their book stores.

Wow. Tower Records. I remember that. I know. Old school. So, uh, I ended up, uh, saying, "Yeah, okay. I'll go back to Vegas." At the time, I was living in in California, and I really enjoy Southern California. You know, it's lovely there.

And, yeah. Yeah.

I just decided, okay, all right, I'll come back. And, uh, the rest is uh, you know,

Yeah. Yeah.

We know we we know what happened to record stores. So,

So, did Bernie man have anything to do with you going back to Las Vegas or was just kind of serendipitous timing? like just just happened coincidentally.

It was I I it's everything happens for a reason. That's one of my favorite sayings. And as it turns out, because I was running that that bookstore, I came across that wired

magazine book that was published

in 1997.

Yeah.

And it's the black cover with the yellow man on

I have it around here somewhere. And I I I have my original copy too that I purchased uh that year and it intrigued me because I didn't think um this event took place in the United States. It just seemed a little too wild.

Well, where did you think it did happen?

You know, I just figured it was so it looked so open and free form. I went, "Oh, this must be taking place in Europe somewhere. That can't possibly be happening in the United States."

Those deserts. Yeah,

I know. I just It just did not seem like a United Statesbased event to me when I was reading through the book.

Yeah.

But um I was fascinated.

I mean, it's a it gave me enough of a slice to intrigue me into wondering, wow, I would be curious to see how all of this is pulled off. Uh and it looks like they've got art and self-exression, which was really exciting to me at the time because I come from a theatrical background. So,

ah,

you researched it a lot more than I did. Like I just had gotten like a photocopy of a survival guide in like in 1996 and my brother's like, "Let's just drive to this thing." I was like, "Where is it, Reno?" Like, "I guess we know how to get there, you know, and we just kind of showed up, you know." But, uh, so like did you go with like with anybody else or like, you know, did you have to like like round up some friends and like, you know, like or did you join like any crew that was going or anything yet or like because that's pretty adventurous to just like read about it in Wired magazine and be like I want to go there and do that like hold on myself

gonna go with my life

I want to do that

so as a just to to go back a little of course I saw it in in the book

but I started asking around

ah

and I at the time as a distributor I had with tower I had a lot of I should say I had a lot of opportunities as a buyer I had a could talk to distributors from different places around the country and as as it would be there were friends who were distributors in California San Francisco area.

So I had mentioned to to one of them I said yeah you know there's this thing called Burning Man it looks like it's you know it might be from folks who live in San Francisco blah blah blah and um it just so happens my friend says I've heard about those folks going out I've been kind of curious. Her name was Barbara and she worked for a distributor that I used to get some of my um books from. So I, you know, she and I kept talking about it and I I said, "Well, if I go, you go." Um, and she's like, "All right." She was an equally as adventurous soul.

Okay. Okay. Yeah.

And we we planned on how to coordinate living in two different places, meeting in Reno.

Yeah. bringing what we need to bring in order to make it out there because neither one of us had been there. But we felt very comfortable if the two of us went, if one of us didn't come back or somebody went missing, you know, at least we had told enough circle of friends like

Yeah. Yeah.

two girls went missing in the Nevada.

Well, yeah, he's the buddy system, you know. It's like scuba diving, you know. It's like, yeah, you look out for each other. Definitely.

Wow.

On a side note, I ended up talking to you. I'm don't know. if you remember this, but back then

Yeah.

Okay. Do you remember this?

I have a fuzzy memory because we're talking about 1998, right?

Okay. So, I as

Yeah, that was a monumental year for me. I don't remember, but uh there might be some reasons why I don't remember some things from that year, too.

Well, it's okay because as it turns out, someone I have spoken with said, you know, there's this guy named Andy and I know he's gone to that event, you might want to ask him if uh he might know something about it. So, as it turns out, I got your number. I called and asked you some questions.

Okay.

Just about it because I was concerned. I mean, I didn't just, you know, I mean, after looking in the book, I thought, "Okay, let me like we've never like met before, right?" I mean,

yeah. Well, you know, I You lived in Hawaii, correct?

Well, well, this is 98. No, because I moved to Hawaii like in 2001.

Okay. So then it it would have been No. Okay. So then in truth I have been I have created a whole fabled I guess around talking to you

that goes back in time.

Well, it may have been another Andy that I talked to who was in Hawaii who said to me, um, yeah, it's it's okay. I went I had a good time. Uh, you'll be okay. They're good people. You should I would say that you should be fine.

Yeah.

Yeah. You should be fine. And I went, "Okay." All right.

At least I talked to a human being who had actually gone to the event as opposed to

But you think that was in 1998, though?

Um, yes. It had to be because I wasn't going out there.

Okay.

So, maybe I might have your local run. Oh, it's So funny. It's like I have this whole myth built up around

I mean it definitely sounds like something I would have done like if someone just kind of called me up like out of the blue and was just like, "Hey, you've been to Burning Man? I'm thinking about going to Burning Man. We've never met before, but like what can you tell me?" And I'd be like, "Oh, oh, Heidi, let me tell you. I'll give you this fine like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be awesome." It's like I have no idea who you are or what you like or don't like, but it's going to be awesome.

Okay. So, I need Yeah.

Well, and it's whom whomever I spoke with reassured me that it would be okay. So, uh, you know, after that I I ended up, you know, Barbara and I ended up talking about going and lo and behold, we made our way out there. I was on a plane. I got to Reno. We we we drove out there and it was quite the experience because we got there late in the it had to be maybe two or three in the morning and You know what that road's like out there? It's like nothing.

That's miserable.

Yeah.

And uh we pulled up as we were driving down the road to approach where it was happening. I did notice a weird purple glow coming from something in the distance. And I was concerned. I went, "What are we going to? This might not be such a good idea." You know, we could turn around right now because I Guys, it's really Roswell.

It just was I just had this eerie, you know how it is.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Middle of the

You know, two women alone.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Traveling in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. Just, you know, unsettling initially, but once we pulled in, uh, it was dark and and parked and of course eventually whenever you fall asleep in a car in the dark, you can't see anything around. you. And then the sun came up and I was uh amazed by everything that seemed to be happening around me just out of nowhere out there in the you know like I said it was like some curtain had been revealed. It was awesome.

So how many days did you go for like when did you uh get up there your first year in 98?

Um I believe we went midweek because being rather new to the experience and the event itself you I wasn't going to put in a a a full because I I knew nothing about this event if it turned out to be a terrible experience. It was like okay well we only spent x number of days there.

Yeah.

And um

I believe I may have gone we may have gone maybe a few days certainly after the event already started. Uh and we had at least two or three days or before the manburn but it was of of an experience for me to to basically say, "Okay, this was awesome. I don't know what I just had happen to me, but this was awesome and I just need to have more of this because it was Yeah, my first year was pretty amazing for me."

So, you did like open camping, so just the two of you guys camped and then you

Yeah, we brought um meet some people like you said.

Well, we just It was just the two of us, so we had a tent and I remember um I went out to explore quite a bit and my friend I think it was just a different experience for her. I mean because you got to figure it was raining at at one point.

That's right. Yeah.

So the the winds blew down part of our structure. I mean we didn't know how to to do this.

I'm lucky our tent was still staked in and didn't blow away. But I mean it was you know newbies. But uh I remember she spent a certain amount of time in the tent because I think it was very intense. I can't speak for her but I think it might have just been an overwhelming.

Yeah.

Right. To as to what was happening around us because you got to figure there's not if you're expecting to go to Burning Man and have rules dictated to you or have guidelines laid out for you. There's not a great deal of that. This is more of um that you're walking into an experience and yes, there are some rules and parameters that that are are in place, but you create a great deal of your own experience. So less cruise ship than more like Lord of the Flies.

Not like Lord of the Flies.

More organized,

but not a cruise ship.

Not a cruise trip. Cruise ship. Maybe more like a summer camp where uh the the the what is it? The camp directors and instructors are not always around.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and uh that kind

So you had the proper first year experience, you know, we were just like, it was raining, it was muddy, it was crazy. Like, I love it. I'm going to do it again.

I love it. Yeah. I mean,

did your friend ever do that?

I do not know to this day. I do not think she ever went back. Um I I I I'm not quite sure. I do think it was somewhat of a of a a bracing experience. Yeah. I mean, it's it's those early years were interesting. You know, that was the first year they did streets.

That was the first year they, if I remember correctly, they had a theme. So

Oh, yeah.

There there was a lot of firsts that happened in 98 that um

that of course I wouldn't have known they were first. It was

my year I think the theme was like time or something and then they had the clock faces for the streets like was that the first year they actually had I

think so. Was it like 98?

Yes, it is. In fact, I don't have it with me right now, but I I just left it sitting um on the table. But I have my my original map from that year and I have my tickets.

So, you know, I I paid $80 and

Yeah. Yeah.

I I see the different camps that are are are just the way it's and it's it went up to street ABC D I think maybe C. I'll just go to show how much

Yeah,

it's I mean it was really only I think just three or I now I'm embarrassed. I should have brought my map with me just so I can

Yeah. Back when everyone was like walking around and it was just like what? It's only like a half a mile to the other side, you know? Yeah.

Oh, it was. But that was part of the experience for me. Walkable.

I still walk around. Yeah.

Yeah. I I mean, I definitely enjoyed the experience of discovering around every corner.

Yeah.

Um meeting people. pretty much at every tent that I went through or place that I I I I was meandering around. I mean, it was a it was definitely an adventure is what it felt like.

So then So then going forward, I mean, uh, so then you went I mean, have you gone continuously since then or you taken off a couple years here and there or?

Um, I've I've missed two years. So it's been a total of what 24 that I've gone.

Wow. Out of that. Yeah.

And have you consistently been with the the same group or have you kind of moved around different camps or have you started any camps or

um I have I solo camped for a great deal of my experience. That's what I enjoy doing.

I like being able to you know I mean I have a working life so I would you know leave work come and post up. I very often would camp solo but I also uh would volunteer. So, pretty much every year I've volunteered uh for to assist um with the event, whether it's ICE or uh Gate or um box office uh perimeter,

all the

only thing I really Yeah. I just And for me, that's part of my experience is to help create the city to help foster its growth. Yeah. Um I love that. It helps enhance my experience. It's like it's a little bit of a whole they say working man. It but for me it's enjoyable.

I think it's just it takes different types of people, you know? I mean, especially with like a like regional context, you know, people it's it's the difference between like people who like to go to the party and have fun and people who like they have fun like working the party, you know? I mean, I've definitely been that camp, too. So, anyway, yeah, that kind of brings us to your whole like regional contact or regional kind of experience. as well. So, like when when did you step up to the plate in the Las Vegas uh regional community?

Uh that would have been in 2004. Uh I was I mean I thought about it in 2003. Um but you know, just to to give you a little bit of background here in Las Vegas, we had one regional contact at the time who was Tony Tony Bondi. He's a pretty well

known artist. Yeah.

Um and creator in the community there of Las Vegas. Uh longtime resident of Vegas and a legend as a creator and an artist. So he was our first Burning Man regional contact here. And then after that we had um uh there was like this opening that I kept hearing, no, you know, they they could probably use more people here to help softer community and I would bother Tony. I'd go, Tony, so can you uh can I be a regional contact? What do I need to do? And and how can I do this and I'd love to help you out because you know I mean I could tell that what people were be were excited about the Bernie experience. But it was really just trying to figure out where I fit into that puzzle and how I could help. So I uh I reached out and said, "Hey, I'd like to be a regional contact." So of course, you know, you know how that works. You get the contract Yeah. Yeah. Well, back then it was a lot different. Yeah. They just kind of like you kind of send them an email. They're like, "Uh, who are you?" And you're like, "H, I'm Tia from Las Vegas." And like, hold on.

Okay.

Yes. You got the job.

You bet. I Well, I kind of at the time I perceived what I was doing.

Oh, are you okay?

Yeah. Sorry, just a little bit of background noise. Um, I perceived what I was doing kind of as a PR role. I wanted to make sure that I I it was weird in my mindset. It was like, okay, I'm gonna help uh folks learn more about Burning Man, help to foster Burning Man culture, also help to protect Burning Man's reputation and name. Yeah.

Right. I saw it as being part of my um I don't want to say duties, but part of part of my duties because I was so much there was very very little information about the event and a lot of I should say accurate information about event the event

and a lot of misinformation about

yeah yeah

and having experienced it I really wanted to be sure to put forth all the truths I knew about attending the event and being part of Bernie man culture

and help to uh dispel any

misconception that was out there about the event at the time because there was so much of it.

So, you just I I I did find it as kind of uh you know, I'm gonna this is part of what I do as a regional is really just to help foster accurate information, community building, and uh helping folks keep that spark alive once they got home and and their brains were on fire after

after they had experienced the event, then what do they do with all that energy? So, I wanted to help to foster that once they came back home.

So then like wasn't there also like dark skies? Was that like more of like Cameron's thing or like because wasn't Cameron he was that your one of your fellow RC's but uh whatever happened to that like that was a like a regional I guess we call it regional burn nowadays with the Las Vegas like out in the desert.

Yes.

Yeah.

So we um in in terms of wanting to foster that great energy that uh you have out already went uh Cameron Grant who was our uh third regional contact. So there was

after

and then there was me and then there was Cameron.

Okay.

And Cameron uh was had come from Florida. So he had

had some experience with Burning Man um prior to coming to Las Vegas. So when he um he you know he thought it would be great if we could have an event that would happen here and you know he helped to really kind of jumpstart our regional events that occurred here in the Las Vegas area.

So, we started out with dark skies and that was in the early 2000s. Then we had and you know we were the goal was to have like a dark skies every uh uh what's the word I think every six months but that was not a reality that could be executed. So it ended up that it was it turned out to be like a once a year experience. Um but it was great to participate in the growth of that event. I mean I I was for me communication is a is a big thing as I feel it is with you as well.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So one of the uh I wanted to make sure I fostered good uh exchange of information about the event

while people were

at the event itself

and then also on their way to the event. So I created a newspaper. I was inspired by is clear to create a newspaper for our defense here

because you we're dealing with um

Hold on a second.

Sorry. So, we're dealing with a um a group of folks who, you know, we're kind of off the grid whenever we do these events, but you know, which leaves you open to a lot of misinformation.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Um it was important for me to help build more of a sense of community by creating this newspaper as a unifying force to distribute information. So I created the lights. So that was our newspaper for all of our regional events up until we uh stopped doing

events. Well, how long is it you guys still have the newspaper around now or have you moved to like social media?

I was gonna say um to to I'm kind of jumping all over the place here, but I just to so we did dark skies, dark skies, then we did a a multi- regional event called um

Dark Sky Singularity where we have

Oh, yeah.

multiple uh regions participate in our meet regional event, which was a pretty awesome experience.

So, um I did the newspaper up through about four different events and then of course We didn't have the we stopped doing dark skies, singularity, those events. And then it we had a new iteration of our regional events that was created by a different group called uh forgotten city. So forgotten city occurred and then after that we had a one-off event called Event Horizon. And now we're at um our new the new name for our current regional event is Synergy Southern Nevada. regional gathering.

So, you know,

it's interesting to see what started way back then in the early 2000s and what is kind of still manifesting in our community, which is just desire to gather as a group and really um you know build our own little mini Burning Man event.

Well, many of us go through cycles too, right? You know, like I mean imagine

also just imagine like with Cameron involved, you know? So, like it gets like bigger and bigger and bigger and then it gets like kind of crazy and then kind of things maybe gets smaller and then I kind of goes up and down. I mean, was it kind of like that or

Yeah.

Well, yeah. I mean, it's just the evolution of anyone. I mean, I I mean of any event in any community. I think you have

um event organizers and creators who come in, they have the concept, they're excited, they can do it, and then their life changes, transitions happen, and oh yeah,

another group comes in and creates an event and energy and hopefully you know as as it were our community's been very supportive of the different iterations of regional events that have occurred here and Vegas is one thing if not supportive of its regional events.

They are our our community base here is just always excited to let's gather, let's create, let's support. Um that's one thing I've always loved about Las Vegas and how our Burning Man community here um activates.

So, is Vegas more of like a more of more of a stable burner community like or more of a transitory like burner community like like here in Hawaii like there's very transitory like people kind of just come and go and it's kind of hard to but I was wondering like what Vegas would be was like.

Well, I would say uh we are we have a core group of folks that have consistently been in our community for know like I you know years but we are open to the stranger. We are because we are a our tourist you know destination we have folks who move here for a few years enjoy our hospitality as burners and then move on to their you know their next destination. So I would say we're more I don't want to say it's like 5050 but it's more of a 6040. So we've got a stable group of community members here at Burners that participate um and engage all the time and then we have a lot of folks who just come in and out.

Um

that's great.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean I think it's important to know that you've got to have that kind of flux of creative energies from people and um

kind of refreshes. Yeah. Like different people kind of come in and like Yeah.

Yeah.

Sure. And nobody gets um you you don't want burnout in your community and you want fresh new ideas

to to be born. I mean, we've done

I mean, you know, some of the things that I don't want to take it for granted, you know, what we've done here. I mean, but we we had a a city burn

that happened here based on the court projects.

Uh we had for Lucky Lady Lucy in part of downtown Las Vegas, which was unheard of.

Really? Wow.

And it was uh a It was funny because I don't think Las Vegas knew what they were going to experience at the time, but it turned out to be pretty amazing for uh a lot of people involved. It was the kind of of experience or event that you you as community members can look back on and go, "Wow, we really accomplished that. That was that was pretty amazing. I guess we can do quite great things if we put our mind to it. Oh yeah.

And I hope that a lot of communities around the world uh when it comes to burners creating events or um pieces of art or doing social interaction either like burners without borders or something along those lines, they can look back once they're done with the project and go, "Wow, we really accomplished that. This is great. This is great. This is what happens when we pull together."

Yeah. Look what we've done together. Right.

Right.

Yeah. Wow. Uh And then also like tell me about like your experience in the the meta regional committee like uh what what exactly does better regional committee do? I mean um I remember when it was like first formed it was kind of idea was almost like a kind of like a like a think tank kind of thing or um I don't know. I mean I guess I guess it's now it's like it's officially just kind of like helping with like like conflict resolution sort of things. That's one part. Or maybe I don't know. You tell me like what those like what's I think there's a number of things that the meta regional committee does but uh I don't know if you you tell me like like your words what you

sure

yeah

uh I met regional contacts of the committee I believe we help to foster the one term they use as we network the network but we foster support and um help to nurture larger communic between the, you know, the the burner who just goes and doesn't participate um maybe outside of Burning Man to those who, you know, are gung-ho and really volunteer all the time. Uh to regional contacts who are hardworking and always laboring at trying to build community,

you know, we listen to all those voices. Um and we then talk back to the org. with what we've heard let's say within the community we serve the global network in that you know you have a regional contact who's taking care of their specific region as a meta- regional contact we have a perspective that's much more global so we are looking to not only serve um our our local communities like because not all regional contacts are are reach I'm sorry not all meta regional contacts are still regional contacts Some are just meta- regional contacts. So I'm you know you can assume that their perspective is certainly more globally projected in that.

All right. So what's happening in let's just let's pick a country let's say okay so what's happening in Australia right now uh what can we do to help foster growth in Australia? Can we just speak directly to those regional contacts and see how they're how things are going in their indiv idual communities. What can we do to offer support to them? You know, in Europe reaching out like they just had the um the European the European

leadership summit

that took place there to help support and build community there in Europe.

Uh where there is, you know, I mean, you got to figure within those communities there's a lot of uh different perspectives culturally, what they're dealing with social politically. So, how does that work within the Burning Man ethos? How do how do their perspectives marry with what we cons I guess you could say is somewhat American centric

Burning Man perspective? How do we merge those together to offer support? So, I see I can only speak for myself when I say my job as a meta regional contact really is to help connect those dots to listen to those voices that may not feel like they're being heard and help amplify them to either, you know, to the org or to their local uh to their local community to help say, "Look, we support you. What else do you need from us to help bring your vision to light?"

Uh do do you need one of us to to um do you need more materials from us in the way of how to run a meeting or are you dealing with conflict? Well, we of um which I'm a member of is the meta conflict support uh subcommittee.

So being a member of that committee, we're able to I'm able to offer assistance when conflict does arise uh when when regional contacts are dealing with difficulties either within their own communities or trying to foster better connections with each other as regional contacts. I mean it just depends on what the need is. Being on the consular committee and being a regional contact,

you're trying to see what you can do to help meet those needs of these frankly tireless volunteers that regional contacts are. You know,

tireless unpaid volunteers who are passionate and committed

and sometimes just need to know that they're not alone and could really use some support. So, I mean, what I enjoy doing.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a very, very important role. Yeah.

All right. All right. Well, I think we've found out quite a lot about you and your experience. I mean, so how is what is your shadow of the man? You know, it's like how is uh what uh change or transformation is have you noticed in your life like uh after encountering the the Burning Man community?

Uh it would change for me.

Or how would how would also you have changed the community itself too? It's a two-way street.

Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. Ooh. Monkey wrench. Uh um you know I I well two things. One I uh like to think that for me Burning Man has been the kind of experience where I can um I've been able to kind of check myself and go are you living authentically?

Do you feel like you're self expressing on a level that is extremely authentic to whom you are? Um I I Bernie man helps me do that check-in for myself. It also lets me know that people who are like myself I I think who have multiple disciplines that there is a place for you to express those various creative uh personalities of yourself. So I mean I'm a singer, I'm a dancer, I'm an actor, I'm a sculptor, I'm an artist, you know I'm a cartoonist, I do all things. Where do I where can I do these things and not feel uncomfortable about doing these things?

Because life often makes you mute aspects of yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, just because of work, just because of

um a family structure, whatever

is in your life that requires you to

maybe focus in a different way and not always

self-express creative. Those things are needed. That's important.

But it's also important not to forget who you are as a creator. And Burning Man for me helps to remind I remind myself every time that I connect with other burners, man, we're clever people. It's what I man, you know? I mean, I I love the unique perspectives

of creation that I see come from other other people who are um

from other ers, I should say. I love that. It's

It's never It It never stops to fascinate me. I'm always fascinated by

Oh, yeah. I mean, we feed off of each other and like Yeah. and help each other out. But also, I was just struck by like what you were saying, you know, like it almost like Bernie Bank kind of helps you to have that um that that route of like self-expression whereas like in your ordinary daily life and I could see like you know family members or or boss It's like, well, this is you're not making money off this. Like, why are you doing that? Like, why are you sculpting that thing? Why are you writing that cartoon? It's like, you know, what's it? It's not productive. Like, what's it good for, you know? But something like Burning Man is just like, well, I'm doing it for me. I'm doing it for my self-expression. It's like, I I don't care if nobody sees it or if like or if one person,

you know. Yeah. But it's kind of creating that like opportunity, you know, for you just be like, this is your chance. Do what you want to do. And it's like, you know what? I do have an idea for everyone might think it's ridiculous. you know, but

yeah,

like I'm gonna do it.

It's my idea and I'm going to do it and

and and I may be the only one. It's like when I hear singers say that they write that they originally they write a song for themselves. It's very true. You you create work for yourself to bring yourself to

and then if other people get enjoyment out of it

that's lovely.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Nice. Awesome.

Well, when we had talked previous to this, uh, you had said you wanted to also like talk about one final thing, which was, uh, you've been consistently going to Brandy Man, but you what two years like since 1998? I'm not even sure those are like the the years that they didn't happen or was that 2021? Those the two years you passed or

No, it was just they were like one year here and one year, you know, that type of thing. not consistently, but you know I mean yeah I mean it's you consistent like I I my I went this year 2024 but like my last year was 2011 so like I skipped the whole like sold out kind of phase of burning I mean 2011 it did sell out like like a month beforehand or something you know but all the other previous years you know it was I mean even up to that point like it was basically I wouldn't call it a sellout year because they were still selling tickets like it wasn't I mean the next year they moved to like a lottery system and then like directed ticket sales and I don't know. So yeah, I made a little list of some things I found were different. You know, my joke at Bird Bay this year was kind of like the Rip Van Winkle, you know. I kind of like woke up and I came back and like like what's going on here? Yeah.

So 2011, uh it's the population was almost 54,000, right? Uh this year I'm not sure they really have the numbers, but like I remember like on Wednesday or Thursday they were like it was something like 62. too or in change or something. So I thought it would they say it's somewhere around the vicinity of 70 or something this year. Maybe overall

like sales take out like I mean maybe like on the ply at any one point in time maybe it was like in the 60s or something

because there were actually a fair amount of people who left like early. I was noticing

you know we

I did notice that too. I did notice that as well. Well then here's my question to you out of curiosity. Did it feel like 2011 based on the numbers that you just kind of rough estimate. Did it feel like the numbers were similar?

I mean, I don't know. It's just like what's the difference between 54,000 and like 62,000? You know, like I don't know. I kind of felt this. I mean, in terms of the raw numbers, I was like, h

I mean, but also I think Britney like we talk about like the the the lettered streets like uh I don't think it went up to Jay, you know. Maybe it was uh Um,

she

Yeah. No, of course.

Fore something like Yeah,

we need to look that up.

But well, the thing is the more streets, you know, even with the more population it would still seem like it's the same, you know, like so I mean it didn't seem like it was that cred. I mean, I heard stories from people telling about like the past number of years or like 2019, I guess, was like the the peak in terms of like the the population and I people were telling stories of just It's like, oh, there's just crowds of people everywhere. Like exodus would take like 9 hours to get in or 12 hours to get out or something. It's like, wow. And this year, I think the Exodus time was like two to three hours or something or or like there was

Yeah, like depending on when you left, you know, I was had an exodus of about three

three and a half hours. But uh

to your point, I

you know, you know, when the playa is more crowded because of course have been in there have been there the years that it's you can tell there's more people in the city. Yeah. You just notice that the esplanade is more packed.

You notice bicycle jams on the esplanade. You see instead of just a smattering of lights, you see a sea of lights when you look out on to the playa. It just seems much more like a moving colorful collage

that you're like, "Okay,

seemed like a lot of lights to me."

But imagine get more magnified. That's how you know. You're like, "Wow, there's a lot of people here this year." That's usually how I'm able to gauge. Do I get into a traffic jam on Esplanade? All right. Then there's a lot of people here this year.

Yeah. Yeah. So, let's see. The next thing on my list was uh cigarettes. I know. Well, I used to smoke. I haven't smoked in like a number of years, but um back in 2011, I mean, just like within our camp, like I mean, we had there was like ashtrays everywhere. Like everybody smoked. That was like one of the the core like jobs in the camp or just you was like cleaning up cigarette butts and oh the wind is whipping up like get all the cigarette butts you know and just like and also like just mooping around being out in the open you know it's like oh they would just be cigarette butts and I'd be constantly like picking up cigarette butts and I would have like little Altoids tin we call we had a bunch of them called like butt boxes and we I mean

this year like I I I think I picked up one cigarette butt like walking out in the playa you know and like I mean

oh wow

most of the people in the camp like I actually brought some cigarettes because I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna give them away." Like apply a gift. Like I couldn't give them away, you know? I just left them on the bar and for like two days like not no one took a single one.

Nobody took

like Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's that is definitely a difference. I'd say that probably has a lot to do with just changing social habits of people smoking, but also true people using vapes more. Not smoking, but using vapes.

Yeah.

And more along the lines of a culturation, too.

Yeah. Don't move.

Pick your stuff up.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Clean up after yourself.

Let's see what other stuff. Uh oh, LEDs and lighting and stuff. Like that's definitely it's like a totally different world. Like everything is just glow. Before it was like glow sticks, you know. There was something e wire, you know, but uh I don't think I saw a single glow stick like at all.

Yeah,

it's funny you mentioned that. It's like I don't think I saw a glow stick at all this year. either.

I mean, it used to be like ubiquitous, you know, like those like those bracelets and people would like, you know, make little hats and all sorts of I mean, people make entire outfits with just made out of like glow sticks and they would just be I be like littering the camp. I remember we used we would uh we would like uh at night time like bake a bunch of glow sticks and then we'd put them on the ground and make like little arrows. We like this way to our camp, you know, like

Oh my god, that's so cute.

Yeah, you say that and I I would say I noticed that more than anything is just proliferation of more light.

Yeah.

Um over the years as it's gotten brighter and brighter and brighter. One because you know nobody wants to get run over because they can't see you in the dark when you're walking around with your bike or on your bike.

So there's definitely been more education surrounding please make sure you're lit when you're out riding at night.

And it's also a fashion statement. I mean you the way that technology has evolved that you can have LEDs in uh um in your you can have them incorporated in your costume or where you know whatever you're wearing. That certainly has helped foster um much more interesting costumes.

Oh yeah,

definitely.

Um it's been a both a from a standpoint of of safety and necessity to a fashion statement and a way to trick out your your your costume or vibe.

It's kind of like art cars, you know. It's like you have your daytime, you have your nighttime, you know?

Yes.

That brings me to the bike thing is my next one was uh well, at least the ebikes. I mean, I I think 2011 like ah there might have been a few ebikes. I mean, definitely a lot of bikes, but like uh now it's I think everybody has an ebike or some sort of like electronic like one of those wheelie things or like the onehe thing like you know But it just it seems like uh everybody was just pretty much biking around like I mean I was like one of the few people actually like walking like we talked about before like walking around you know. I mean yeah I feel like you get like a different experience. I mean I can just kind of walk up on art and I can kind of like take it in and take I think I took a lot of like really cool pictures you know but hard to

There was definitely um I mean I noticed I think last year there certainly was more of there was certainly a growth in the number of ebikes you saw in

Flyia.

Uh this year I saw of course the same, you know, an increase, but you know, I think I saw more people on bikes than on ebikes. That was satisfying to me.

Uh just to see people

roughing it out and riding their bike around heading out on a new bike,

you know, because it's the really the most practical way to get around is to be on.

You don't have to worry about charging anything, you know?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I don't know. Does anyone really want steal your like little ply bike. You don't really want to steal the ebike, right?

They'll steal your ebike in a minute. So, you got to make sure that it's it's

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing, the next thing was theme camps, I think. Uh was looking up the numbers in 2011. Back then it was more like 10% theme camps, like 90% uh open camping. And then I've I've heard I mean this year I heard it was kind of more well it had turned to like 90% theme camps, 10% open. camping, but the what I had heard this year was more like like 6040 or 7030. You know, it wasn't quite there's actually a lot more like open camping this year than I guess there had been in years past, but uh

uh you know, I wish I had specifics of those numbers as uh that's what I look forward to the census.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I really look forward to the census coming out because there's what I assume I thought was happening when I was out there. And then there's the the numbers, the reality of actually what was occurring as far as number of people attended, uh number of folks who were participating in Zen camps and and you know,

uh that's I I look forward to that information because it it lets me know the reality of how we're growing as a community.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean I just that the rumor I heard that was just more like 60 70 versus the 90, you know, but that cuz that's what I the past number of years that I guess that's what the census had showed that it was it did flop. It was like now more like 90% theme camps and 10% like open camping. But then like this year I guess there I don't know that was just like the I guess I guess earlier in the week there like oh yeah there's still a whole bunch of open camping and there were like like three or four like streets in the back that were open and and Like, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see, you know. Uh, let's see. The next thing was Oh, yeah. Yoga.

Yoga.

Yoga. No. Okay. Well, way back.

Got to guess yoga.

Got to get Yeah. But, uh, I don't know. Yoga was always kind of just like inconspicuous, you know? It's like, oh, like a little here, a little there, just kind of camps. But, like, for some reason, I don't know, maybe it was just my perception of it, but like it seemed like every second or third camp was it was like, oh, yeah. you know, we're doing yoga in our camp and I was like, "Wow." I don't know. It just seemed to me like a lot of more of a yoga explosion pretty like that was just my how I saw it. I don't know. Just like

Well, this could be the trend this year. This could be the yoga year because every it seems like every year there's a trend of certain types of camps

that will

because you know if somebody feels like they have a good deal, a good idea, someone else thinks they have a really good idea, they're manifested. So

that there's a there's a a kind of a parallel with a lot of the same camps occurring at one time

in a given year. That could be kind of funny. I mean like you know are there a lot of coffee camps this year? Are there going to be a great number of uh what's it you know are like the swag swag trading camps you know who's showing pancakes? Are there a number

how many pancake camps are there this year? I mean

um I always find that to be kind of fun because who benefits are are the burning where the

we're the one who benefits because that just means there's oh I don't have to go over there for that yogurt camp I got my local yoga camp right here

just down the street same as it would be if coffee joint or u and as we know there's always a large number of community bars there's always

Oh yeah yeah yeah

yeah I mean has that changed you think that's changed at all or have you

uh no Well, there definitely seemed like a large number of camps that were like bar slash yoga, too. So,

oh,

yoga bar. Yeah, you can contort yourself. You get a free drink.

Your contortionist can't

Oh, god.

Uh, let's see. Another thing I Oh, yeah. Something just wandering around on Playa just just overhearing listening to like just my surroundings. I definitely heard way more foreign languages. just like just randomly like walking around and just like different people than I think I'd like ever heard before and just people from like all over the place like sometimes I was I was kind of playing this game or like like what language is that like where are they from you know but yeah that's definitely that was definitely like a a welcome difference I thought like this year just kind of wandering around just being like wow you know it's like I don't just hear the same voices you know

oh that's lovely to hear I mean that just does show the you know I mean one it's not easy to get here to Burning Man from another country

I mean you think how tricky it is I mean you know I know you're coming from Hawaii so I mean country it size but

um just just the logistics and trying to pull everything together getting your equipment setting up with your campmates what do you bring what do you not bring I mean and the fact that journey

to come here to experience the event on on I guess you could say home soil is pretty neat. So I I love to same thing. I love hearing all the different voices and asking you know just asking them about their experience and and what it's like to be

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

It took them so much to come there.

Exactly. Yeah. Let's see. We already talked about entry exit wait times. Oh large sound. That was another difference. Uh I remember I used to always be kind of confined to like 10 o'clock and two o'clock, but um what I've been starting to call the sound barges, you know, like the

you know like like the Mayan warrior robot heart or you know like just these gigantic like some of them it's like they have to be pulled by giant trucks. It's like they can't even move by themselves like you know but it's just like this it's just the central like DJ and then all the lights and the speakers and And and it seems like they're it's not just 10 and two. It's like they go to the deep ply, but then it was also kind of towed all the way into like almost like center camp like a couple times and I was just like oh like I I thought that large sound was always kind of like out there like on the fringes but like this year it just kind of seemed like I don't know just sort of like moved around was like all over the place. I mean not like internal to the inside of the city you know but um

but yeah definitely coming I remember seeing like fairly close to center camp. Definitely like between the man in center camp. It's just like wow.

You know, and then sometimes

it was definitely

Oh, that's right. Go ahead.

Oh, no. Because I was just saying like I camped like at in center camp and I remember there were a couple of nights where I was like, "Wow, I didn't think it was this loud down here, you know, and then people like, "Oh, yeah, no, mine or something was just like parked right out over there." I'm like, "Oh, I didn't know that they came in this close." Like,

but I mean in my backyard.

Yeah. Yeah. That just just a difference to note. I mean, like I personally don't really care. Um let's see. Another one was uh phones. I was in 2011 they were not prominent and 2024 they're not prominent. That was actually kind of a shock. Like I thought there was going to be a bunch of people just like walking around being like there's the man. Okay. You know, like

true.

But but actually I I It was like totally inconspicuous. I mean, maybe people like whipped out their phone to like take a picture or, you know, look up on, you know, eyeburn or one of those apps, you know, like, "Oh, where am I going?" or something, you know, but but no, I was I was pleasantly surprised. I was like, "Oh, it's just like I was before." Yeah.

I'd like to think that there's so much there's so much to engage in outside of your phone. People really want to have that experience

of connecting with frankly other people, other burdeners when they're there.

Um, it seems whenever I did see the use of phones, it was more to take a picture,

maybe to look up to see where um a a specific art piece was,

but not necessarily to

um to interact with as an experience out there is I'm going to be on my phone

because, you know, I mean, Wi-Fi is limited and you have to make you make a conscious choice to bring your phone with you and most people do it to take pictures, I think.

Um or to use a GPS to find things.

Yeah.

But I, you know, I I agree. I did not see um I mean, I would say a few years back, I just I noticed there was more of a a vibe where you got the sense of folks were standing their art pieces or doing certain things on art pieces for

like photos.

Yeah. Like photo shoots, you know. I remember seeing not not last year, but certainly the year before. There was some of that vibe that I I experienced for some uh you know, I would see, you know, you'd go to an art piece to experience it, really see it, and there were uh sometimes you'd catch people doing full-on photo shoots on the art piece and and you you kind of wanted to say, you know, please share this with other please share this art with other people and try not to monopolize the piece. itself as a set.

Yeah.

Really just step back from it and experience it closely in the way the artist intended you to experience it.

You know, maybe some pieces of course are interactive, but others are just to be observed and appreciated and seen against the negative um uh campus of the playa, you know, without much else going on. And and it's hard to to engage that way if There are folks doing a photo shoot an art piece.

Yeah. Yeah. I could think of like no lower thing. Hopefully this has never happened where it's like, you know, you're at an art piece and someone comes up and they like tap me on the shoulder like, "Excuse me." And you're thinking, "Oh, are they asking my permission to like you have me in the picture?" Like, "No, no, can you be out of the picture?"

Yeah.

Can you go over there? You're like, "What the hell?" Like, "No. that's happened and I'm sure they've got a nice

reaction thrown back at them. So, I I got I got an answer for you.

I don't know. That almost sounds like a a funny kind of little plyick thing to kind of do to kind like go around different art pieces to be like, you know, and have like but do it like all flamboyantly. Like I'll be the photographer. I'll have like a big like, you know, uh scarf on. I'll be like, "Oh, Ta, Tia, go up there." And they'll be like, "You you on the thing. Move, move. kind of like a performance art piece.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Oh, it would that would be funny. That would definitely get some reactions. You know, this is a BDC.

And you what?

And you what it or

Yeah. I don't know. Hopefully, we're not giving anybody any ideas, you know.

Well, I'm sure it's I'm sure somebody's already You know how people are. Somebody's already done it.

Yeah.

Probably got a video. is videotaped. They probably got it, you know, captured somewhere.

That's true.

So, if anyone wants to reach you, how can they do that?

Oh, definitely. Um, I would love us folks wanted to reach out to me, you can email me at pa t i coleman at burningman.org. And also, if you'd like to maybe get more information or email the meta regional contact committee. You certainly can do that at meta nea burningmen.org.

So just to be clear, it's t i y a c o lan.

That is correct at burningman.org.

Okay, great. Thank you.

You bet. You know, one thing we did not talk about and I would like to to touch base on is

um diversity aspect of being out of

man.

Oh yeah,

you know.

Yeah. And just uh for those who may not know, I am African-American. Um I am um here to encourage you to please be part of the cultural awakening that Burning Man can be. If you've not participated in Burning Manike events and you're curious about attending. You can also reach out to me um through the email I just given which is tyolman.org and I can help you uh make a connection to be part of the Burning Man community if you wish to do so. So

yeah, are you part of the Black Burner project at all?

Um I am not. Uh I am I do know Aaron and uh

I I know when her project started and and what it's become has been really neat to see it's how it's grown over the past few years. Um, it's done awesome work of getting the word out to black burners that you too can be part of the Burning Man experience just through imagery alone. People can see themselves placed out in the desert and uh know that they have there's a home for them here too. So, kudos to Aaron for having done that. But, you know, I feel like I I try to do my part by just being present. I've been, you know, I'm sure there have been times when that people have looked and they've seen over the years just one little brown face in a in a picture and uh that that's probably me. But, you know, I've always felt it's important to hold space even if you are the only one for a period of time

and let people know there is a place for them

and uh of course

they should come join in the fun.

Yeah. Well, thank you. Wow, that's awesome. I mean that that's The reason I wanted you to be actually my my second guest is uh no I believe in the same principles and like I would like to you know share your experience and hopefully inspire other people to to come and so you know you you would see more faces like yours.

Yeah it's like what I've been here what 24 years having my burning experience and hope to have many more years uh within our burnover verse uh basically offering support to people to be their most creative selves

and trying to attain

um just a sense of of who they are as people and creative beings. So,

I just hope I can continue to do that more.

Well, thank you so much for your time. This has been a wonder and a pleasure and I'm sure everyone's going to love it and uh thank you for coming.

My pleasure.

Pleasure.

Okay, I'll talk to you soon.

All right. All right. Bye. For more detailed information about regional contacts, the meta regional contact committee or the conflict support meta subcommittee, please go to burningman.org. If you would like to know about Aaron Douglas's Black Burner Project, be sure to check out their website at blackburnerproject.com.

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