EP 33 Wolfie

Episode 33 with Wolfie is out now! Meet Wolfie, the current mayor of Illumination Village, an established and art-focused camp at the Burning Man. The conversation explores her decades-long history with the event, beginning with a chance encounter with the festival's founders at a beach burn in the 1990s and evolving into her sophisticated role as a community leader. Wolfie details the logistical complexities of managing a large-scale village on the Esplanade, emphasizing the shift from being a passive spectator to a participatory contributor who fosters artistic collaboration and mentorship. Her story highlights how the festival serves as a transformative ritual and a source of found family, providing a structured environment where radical self-expression and communal responsibility intersect.

https://boxshopsf.org/

https://www.illuminationvillage.org/

https://www.flaminglotus.com/

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Transcript

Before we start, I would like to ask your help to do two things. First, tell a friend or two who you think might like the show. And second, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. The more reviews the show gets, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Thank you, and now on to the show. 

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. of burning up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man. 

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Oh, thank heavens. It's that Andy. Today our guest is Wolfie. Wolfie, welcome to the show. Thank you, Andy. Wait, what's your burner name? Do you have a burner name?

You know, I first went in '96 and over all these years, it's like I never quite really ever got a Burning Man name. A couple of things kind of stuck. The one thing I kind of went with was just people were just like, "Wait, who are you?" And it's just like, you know, and they're just like, "Oh, oh, you're that Andy.

You're that Andy.

That that Andy." Oh, that. That's why at the beginning of the show It's always my little intro introduction thing is like they're not Andy. Oh, THAT Andy,

oh, oh, that Andy. I mean, other ones I've heard is god damn it Andy or you know, f*** Andy or

f****** Andy.

f****** Andy. Yeah, but you know, they're not exactly PG-13 names, I guess. So, my best one of my best friends, Jenny K, I think you know, right? Uh, so she suggested you like as a guest last year when I first started the show. Um, and I and I've been trying to get a hold of you for like a while and but like through it's it's like this the seven degrees of separation kind of thing. It's like you talk to one person another person and then you know and through doing this show I've actually you know re found old friends and met new old friends you know. So yeah. So you are the the longtime mayor of it's Illumination Village or Illville.

Yes. Well, I am the current mayor of Illumination Village.

Okay.

So, Illumination Village is we've been around for 30 years.

So, you can imagine like being a longtime mayor means you really just lead for like, you know, three to five years. And I I am the current mayor I would probably say we tried to do a count. It I may be the 13th mayor of Illumination Village. I love to say I'm the mayor of Illumination Village, but also I come from a long line of other people who, you know, represent this amazing village.

Do you get like a ceremonial sash and top hat and stuff like that?

I wish this is not a It's not a paid job. It is a passion. It is a passion project. You know, this is not something that you do for any other reason other than you love the village and you love Burning Man.

So perhaps the the gear should be more of like a black and white striped shirt and a ball and chain.

Yeah, exact prisoner. No, I actually So we're having a on Playa this year as we're recording. I know we're gonna be you'll be seeing us hearing this recording in January, but

well, this is gonna be November 15th, I think. Yeah.

Oh, November 15th. Okay. But we're recording in August. I literally behind me have early access passes thrown out from my This is the mayor in action. Um, and we have our 30th anniversary this year. So, we are doing a parade.

Wow.

And on Thursday, which you're invited, we're doing parade and basically I will have a a sash and I will have a hat and I will have a dress and we're basically going all out to celebrate our impact

at Burning Man.

What time is it going to be at?

It's going to be at 5:30. At 5:30 we're going to gather for the group photo and then 6 pm we'll take off.

And that's so from your camp and then you guys going to go like up and down esolad or something? I think we're going to go because we have mutant vehicles. I think we're actually going to go out to the Flaming Lotus Girls project, Haven. They're bringing a big They're camp. They camp with us generally and they're bringing a big uh project, honorarium project called Haven, out to the play this year. And that will be in between the man and the temple, but they haven't announced placement yet, so we don't fully know.

Oh, yeah. Flaming lotus girls. Oh, that that's definitely one of my prime goals, too. Like for for interview subject, but I don't know. We can talk all about that later. Um,

yeah, I can I can get you that interview.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Okay. So, what was uh what what was your first year? Like what brought you to Burning Man?

So, great question. I Well, I'm from the Bay Area, right? I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up in a little town called Pacifica, California. We have a beach called Lindmar Beach.

And I grew up basically in a place called Pedro Point. It's right on Lindamar Beach. And so one of the things that you would do as a teenager is you would go well, you would go hang out at the beach, you know, and and kind of get in trouble or like do things, do nefarious things.

So I'm out there and

I come across this drum circle

and there's this sixfoot like mummy thing sitting there like like the with his arms out and we're walking by. I'm with my friend just watching and these people are like, "Hey, what are you doing? Come join our drum circle. Come join us." And we're like, "What the hell? Who the hell are these people? This is some This is some I've never seen I had heard about Burning Man. Of course, it's part of the culture in the '9s in that area. You know, everyone that I knew that was in their 20s was going to Burning Man or raving or doing things like that. Like the rave underground rave scene was really big.

So, uh, and even though I'm young, I started I went to my first rave when I in 1997. So, I was already kind of into it. So, so back to Lindamar Beach, uh, it turns out that these people who were at the beach were burning an effigy and they were burning the man and They were burning a man, I should say, and they were looking for new locations because they had gotten kicked off of Baker Beach. They couldn't use that location anymore. And they were scouting locations years. So, I joined them. I joined them.

What year is this?

You know what? I couldn't tell you. It was early 90s.

Yeah.

It was probably like I was maybe 16, so it was like n It was like 96 97. So I c here's here's my my proof. I'm actually showing that Andy a picture

Oh.

of the man that was burned. And

okay. Yeah.

It was the founders of Burning Man. Of course, I'm a teenager at this time. I do not know anything about really what Burning Man is. This was foreshadowing for my first burn. Right.

So, years later, you know, Abs Cynthia, we're name dropping a little bit. Absynthia is a big, she's been going to the burn forever.

So, she was there and I'm telling her the story and she's like, "Yeah, I was there with Larry

with a bunch of the heads of Burning Man. We burned the man." And she had a picture of it and she actually gave me this photo.

Wow. Yeah. So that was technically my first burn. Years later in 2013, I was invited to actually go to Bernie. Up until that time, I had been uh up until that time I had been like teaching at festivals. I I was in the transformational arts uh healing and facilitating groups and ecstatic dance. And I So, I had been teaching at Lightning in a Bottle. I'd been teaching at Lucidity. I've been going to different festivals and doing those things. And someone offered me a ticket to go to Burning Man. And so, 2013 was my first burn.

So, you you you first ran into these like uh Burning Man refugees, burning an effigu in Pacific Pacifica Beach, right?

Like the early mid 90s and then

it was 2013 by the time you made it out to

Yeah, I know. Oh, well I had to go through my own personal abil like ability to go because I was like very much against like substances and like what kind of like the I wanted to be sober and I wanted to

you don't really know what Burning Man is because it is so associated with you know in the default world with drugs and with like hedonism and

devil worship.

I couldn't and devil worshipping, right? And so I couldn't really get I I couldn't get there until I could get there. So 2013, I had the funds. I was old enough. I was mature enough uh to get out there.

Wow.

Yeah. No, that's interesting. Like No, because the it's it's almost the mere opposite of my experience where it's like I started in 96 and then didn't exactly go every year, but then around 2011 I stopped and then I took off about 13 years and then I just last year was the first year I came back.

Yeah, that's when I've been burning since you've been gone.

Yeah.

I know. Well, no, it's actually it's an era that I'm like very curious about. I mean, you know, of course, you know, I hear all the stuff in like social media and people talk about like, oh, plugandplay camps and, you know, this and that. But, uh, I mean, it's it's Burning Man still has the same magic. It's always had, you know.

Absolutely. And I unfortunately I, you know, I had so many friends that went to Burning Man in the early 2000s and it in its heyday. I love Burning Man. I still think that it is a special place

and it's extreme, you know? It's just one of those places where everything thing is extreme and intense.

Well, it's like what you're talking about like uh wanting to go sober and just feeling that it's like oh yeah, it's just like this uh God, what do we used to call it? Um I my brother and I used to call it the like the narcotics Olympics.

Yeah. I mean,

but I mean it's one of the few places in the world where it's like you could be completely utterly sober and you'll feel like you're tripping.

Absolutely. I mean, I'm not sober by any means, but I also am very because of my leadership position, I definitely like take it easy out there and the The more I go, the more I realize I actually don't need substances to to like have a great time, to dance all night long, to see the sunrise. Like, there's so much to experience there that's not being in a khole for this, you know?

Well, I just remember like my personal experience and and that of my my campmates and for for many many years up until now recently where I was like Oh, no. There's a new way of doing things. Was like we would get there like on Saturday. We would usually be like driving from San Francisco like, you know, like we get there like late and and sometimes we'd been up for like days like already, you know, and then we we set up set up and then it's just like party party. It's funny cuz like in the the theme song for my show like Jenny I say Jenny says we we both came up with it together but I credit her, you know, it's the uh uh uh party party drama drama drama b**** b**** b****. Exactly.

You know, so it's like, you know, you work work work and then you party party and then and then everybody kind of like starts like going at each other's throats. And so after like three or four days, usually by like Wednesday or Tuesday or something, you know, there'll be like some friends of ours who will just be arriving and they'll be fresh and like, "Oh, let's hit the town. Let's go have fun. Let's do some drugs." And I'm just like,

"No,

I need to get some sleep or I'm going to kill somebody."

Or you're like, "I need to get out of here."

Yeah. me away.

That's what I do. I usually need to leave,

you know, and just go like get a different vibe because I am in leadership. I do deal with people all burn long, which is great. I love it. I'm an extrovert.

Well, what do you mean by leave? Like just kind of wander about the play by yourself or

Yeah. Yeah. Get out with my friends, like go for a bike ride, go out to Deep Playa, go find a a dance party, go like walk around our little

part of the city. You know, that's interesting because um they interviewed D.Va Marica uh and by well, by the time people hear this, it she's going to be the September 15th episode, but uh you know, Death Guild, Thunderdome like mayor, and she said almost the exact same thing. You know, she says like, you know, sometimes I just need to just like get away and just do my own thing and just wander around and just be like, I'm a civilian. I'm not

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. You have to get out because 200 people all needing something from you and they all know they all know me. I and I don't even know them. I don't even know who they are sometimes, you know, but there's a lot of people who have been coming back to the village years and years and years and years. So, I know all of them, but new people who come in and there's always something to deal with as you know, as a mayor, as a leadership person when you're especially with a village because we are a group of campers and artists who bring we are separate camps who all bring an experience together.

Yeah. So, how does illville work? Like how many what camps, how many have it, how many people you have.

Yeah, great question. So, this year it it fluctuates every year depending on if some people take a year off or if we get a new camp that wants to come in. And so, we're about because we're an eslenade camp, we do have to limit the amount of campers that we can have, especially with the new placement guidelines and the hubbing process. And consider Illumination Village is like the first hub. We are a group of people, camps, smaller camps ranging from four people to 20 people who all come together and share resources. So for our internals, because the org did kind of make they're making us um theme camps. Now we're not allowed to apply as a village but our internal resources we all we run like we always have which is a a village but for to placement we are one theme camp.

So what's the difference between a village and a hub?

Not really anything. I think what it is is that we the a hub works with placement to they're hubbing to meet their sustainability goals. We are hubbing to meet our sustainability goals within the org by 2030, which is to reduce fossil fuels, which means, you know, if you have a giant generator, can you share that generator with another large theme camp? Right? So, how do you share power, water, um, graywater, compost? How do you really collaborate? with others, other camps outside of your own to get these these needs met, right? And this was this was I think part of it too was um based off of like trying to end the plug-andplay era.

Ah yeah.

So um which you know that was I would say that you can get as plugandplay as you want without being plugandplay just looking for a little different, right? I mean, that's saying like, I want to create a camp with 200 people and I'm going to have power and I'm going to have like water and I'm going to have food and you're going to have everything and you're going to pay for $5,000,

$10,000, whatever. Yeah.

And by the way, you just need to show up and there's going to be a tent waiting for you. Oh my god, f*** that. Barf in your mouth. Like, consider like wow taking radical self-reliance just like down the drain. It's just I don't I don't love it. You know, you can hear it in my voice. I don't love it. But um I would consider Illumination Village to be a place where artists can collaborate. We all come together. We are like a microcosm of Burning Man. So we have within our 21 camps this year, we have 230 people. We have uh our due camp dues include uh power showers and graywater and they're $160. So they're very accessible

for an esplenade camp. So out of those 21 camps, we have 40 art pieces. 23 of those are

fire artists where can walk into our fire carnival, push buttons, and it goes poof poof. Uh, fire all night. So, we're one of the original fire villages. I know there's like the fire conclave, and this is, I would say, complimentary to them. We have six interactive spaces. So, we have a cafe, we have two bars, we have a steam room, an off-grid steam room, we have um and then we have like night and mutant vehicles and Then we house also four art support camps who are doing deep fire art. So it's a lot right like we provide a lot. That's why I say we're a microcosm of Burning Man is why we didn't hub because part of the regulations through placement especially this year and the the previous years if you were an art support camp you wouldn't qualify for esplan placement.

So we we we give artists a space on Esplanade. We are in Esplanade camp this year. We're going to be at 2 o'clock in Esplanade.

Okay.

Which we're holding down the corner.

Um

yeah. So again, we it really wouldn't have been possible without all of those people. We don't just have one offering. We are a place that you can come and experience art.

So I encourage

two o'clock side. I mean Are you guys like doing like the large scale sound art as well or?

So, we do have a stage. No, what? When we got our placement, I kind of freaked out a little bit. I mean, it's a big space. It is the corner of Black Rock City

and has traditionally been known as a sound camp corner. But this year, they're moving the sound camps back to I think D and E is where they start.

And then the front is kind of like more uh chill. So, I did have a moment where I was like, "Oh s***, this is going to be nuts." But then I talked to placement and kind of got some assured like, "Okay, you guys aren't like right there. There's four blocks between you and the first sound camp."

Ah, well, also I think a lot of there's I don't know what I was calling sound barges, you know, like the like mobile sound camps of these gigantic I mean, I guess they call them art

like Mayan Warrior.

Yeah,

I think I heard Mayan Warrior um camps at like two is going to be on the 2 o'clock slide. So, we will see Mayan Warrior get to drive by our village, which I think is cool.

Cool. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah. So, I mean, so how So, think uh how

I know we kind of got off topic. We were

Okay. Well, let's beginning. So you first went in 2013.

Yes.

Uh yeah. So how did I mean so you you had friends in the community? Well I guys wanted to go back to this whole Pacifica thing at first. So like

yeah

I had thought Okay. So was it 1986 you know through 1990 or whatever you know they were you know burning like the the effigy like down at like Baker Beach and then as the story goes you know the park police says no you can't burn it here. Then 1990 you know cacophony kind of comes in like hey drag it out to the black rock and they do that. But I didn't realize that they were still

they were still doing

a beach burn somewhere like Pacifica.

Wow. It was just like like early mid 90s and it was like and and pals.

Yeah. And I literally had no idea who these people were. I was joining a drum circle with these weird people who ended up being really cool, right? Because they're like, "Yeah, we like come hang out with us and jam with us. And

did you stay in touch with them like over the next

No, no, but I'm from the Bay Area. So when you're a burner, right, and you're kind of And through my So I I went to my first burn in 2013 and I just I just camped in like normal open camping. I had a group of friends. We were out on six and like E and uh I just did the regular burn. And to be honest, I was wasn't actually I did the spectator burn. We'll say

it's your first year. Yeah,

it was my first year. I was a spectator 100%. But I I'm not a

like veteran burners or they they're first time too.

They were they brought a rolly cart bar.

Okay.

Uh we would like roll it around and kind of cruise around and serve drinks and stuff like that, but it wasn't what I do now. And to be honest, I wasn't that impressed. I, you know, I I hate to say that now, but I wasn't. I was just in a place where like is this really what I'm going to do with my life? Like go like take drugs and get high every night. Like it did catapult me into like what the hell are you doing with your life Wolfie moment.

And but it wasn't until my second burn. So actually at a regional I met my Probably like two months later, I met my future husband.

Oh.

At Utopia Regional Burn in San Diego. And he asked me, he said, "How was your first Burning Man?" And I was like, "It was okay." And he was like, "What? It was okay." Like he was taken aback. But again, I'm not a great spectator, right? It took me like three or four years to really like ah like I get it now.

Well, experience is different for everybody. You know, I think the people think in they talk about it's like oh this this is transformational thing and it's like in your first time there it's this magical thing and you you will cry on the play and your life will be changed and like it's like you know everybody has their own path you know I mean every I mean my first year I was like I went to this crazy thing and I almost died and I in fact saw some people I think that did die you know and I was like this is This is insane. This is like an inferno. This is hell. Oh my god. I got to come back again next year.

Exactly. Exactly. Well, I ended up taking a year off and then I went back with Illumination Village. So, my ex I'm going to name him Wonder Boy. That's his name. I'm going to call him by his plan name.

Okay.

I love Wonderboy. Uh, you know, he's my now my ex. husband. So, uh, but he did really he showed me how to do Burning Man and it was through being of service and bringing a gift,

participating,

bringing participating, you know, really, really getting that Black Rock Cities, the offerings of Black Rock City, they don't exist if the people who come to Black Rock City don't bring them. Oh, yeah.

And I think that is sexy. That is hot. You don't see anywhere really else in the world except for the regionals. You don't go to an event and see no vending, you know, but like the ability to get a grilled cheese sandwich or a crepe or like a popsicle or strawberry shortcake or just or a drink, you know, given to you. And I think that I wasn't able to experience that in that way until I got over the spectatorness of it. Like I'm not a great spectator. I like to be on the ground off ing in service. That's who I am.

That kind of brings me to something because um I've always felt that uh if Bernie man is kind of a bucket list thing for somebody, they just go once and they're just kind of like, okay, check, you know, did that.

Yeah.

Uh and then I think there's kind of a honeymoon kind of period if it's not a bucket list. So it's like within three years it's like unless you start volunteering or participating or doing something, you know, it's like after three years you're just kind of like Eh, been there, done that, you know. But I think if you if Yeah. If you if you get involved and you do something and you radically express yourself, you know, it's like you'll wake up and Yeah. It'll be 30 years late.

Yeah. Exactly.

What have I been doing? You know, like

Yeah. Well, uh, that's Charlie Gatakin. He's the founder of Illumination Village and he Oh, really?

He's just Yeah. He shows up and he uh he's been come this will be his 30th year this year. So, but yeah, I think that it's a really good point. I like I believe that Burning Man is better when it is a a participatory event. So, like when you're bringing something that you love, by by year three, to your point, I was already a camp lead. So, my my one of my two campers, my my two camp leads. We were the grid of Illumination Village. We were the grid crew. That's how I got into Illumination Village. And we brought a steam room. So, Wonderboy

brought a steam room. You probably know who he is. Um, but he brought a steam room and he So, we we started serving the village. And at first it was just a villagewide thing and we would have public hours and we would just see all of these people coming in. They go into the steam room, they'd undress, they'd go in the steam room, they'd come out, they'd be like, "This was the most amazing thing that I've ever experienced." And just to have that, just to see the people's joy brought joy to me and it gave me more joy to keep coming back and bringing

I never steam steam room on the play cuz I mean like hot. What do you want a steam room? But I'm like now I'm thinking about it, I'm like, "Wow."

No, you want to do a steam room when it's hot because when It's hot. The steam room is hotter than it is outside. And so when you get out of the steam room, not only are you clean, you are wet. You are cooled down.

Yeah.

So, right at night, you it's cold outside and you're warmed up and you're cleaned off and

oh my god,

it's like perfect to go to bed. So, it really is that perfect perfect gift.

Wow. That's genius.

And there's quite a few steam room saunas on um at Burning Man now it's kind of taken off. There's a lot of there's a lot of sauna projects

because it's always been like the misters kind of thing, you know? It's like, oh yeah, I'll keep record during the day, you know, but that's it's very kind of ephemeral, you know. It's just like m miss mist. Oh, it's good and it goes away.

Yeah. No, this is what I think one of the most amazing experiences you can have on the playa is going into a steam room and and then coming outside.

Oh. Wow.

Yeah.

So you said

I started

So Charlie

Ganigan started uh Illville. So what would that be? 96.

Yeah. 95 96

95 96. So is Illville been Southern California? Like LA kind of.

No, we're Bay Area.

Oh, Bay Area.

So yeah, Bay Area. I'm actually from the Bay Area. I just live in Southern California now because of life circumstances brought me here.

But I'm from, like I said, the Northern California. So, I lived up there until 2019 and then I moved here. And there's a place, it's a very magical place called the Box Shop. And the Box Shop is a collaborative basically work space for big art. It's where the Flaming Lotus girls work out of. Uh Charlie Gatakin works out of there. Just so many different art. Charlie Gatakin is him. He started it and it's still alive today. It's actually I was just there on Wednesday.

Where is that?

So, it's in the Hunter Point,

San Francisco

and they're doing a they have a one-year lease and then their lease expires. So, they're they're like raising money to to save the box shop. So, shout out for the Box Shop. If you want to keep art alive in San Francisco, go check it out. Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes. Do they have like a website?

Yeah, boxshopsf.com

and can like uh v you said various artists you can like rent a space there or like work on.

Yeah.

Oh,

can rent spaces. There's containers. They did buy a new space that they will move into and I don't I don't know what the status is of that space right now.

It's going to take a lot to get it up and running.

I mean, because the box shop itself, it's containers that are kind of stacked on top of each other. There's a big workshop and you can rent out containers and work from there.

So, your third like your first year you were just spectator, took a couple years off, you come back uh Wonder Boy and he introduces you to to toll Illumination Village.

Illumination Village.

And then you get hooked and then by the third year you're helping to organize.

I'm camp lead. I have a background in leadership. So I and organizing people so it was kind of like the perfect skill set to have managing, you know, a smaller camp. And then I did that until 2019. 2019 I well co ID happened in 2020. So, the burn got shut down. I didn't go. I burned in place. And I had a series of events. I invited my friends and we had like a unicorn brunch and we did a slow the f*** down uh protest where we were like because I lived on a corner and people would just like speed. So, I got all my friends out and we like had a party and like drank cocktails and

told people, you know, drive like my grandma. A and uh 2022 I sparkle ponied. I didn't do any leadership and I just came in. I decided I was coming I was going through a divorce at that time and just decided to come come in and join a camp and really decided God I'm really not a spectator. I really need to do something like if I'm coming to Burning Man I'm building art. I'm organizing something. I'm a part of a team. I need to be doing that stuff. And then 2023, so in 2022, Illumination Village lost its esplanade placement and we got moved back to like 3:00 and F or something like that,

which was the first time in years and years and years that that had I don't think it had ever happened actually. We were always on esplanog and known for esplanog placement.

Yeah. Yeah.

And So, in 2023, we got a note from placement that said, "Hey, no one from the placement team wanted you guys because you're a black hole and you're never on." And they basically just gave us a good reading and a good spanking. They were like, "You need to step it up if you're going to be on Esplanade."

So, what things just drifted over time and

until like by 2022 or something like M

yeah I think that when sometimes we can be entitled to think we're entitled to things that things are just going to happen and we don't need to work for them and I think maybe we got a little tired and the previous years before and maybe because the way that our village was set up you could like kind of walk through it

which is unique and but it didn't offer much light as placement wanted up in front. So, that was just a challenge. Like, yeah, it broke our hearts a little bit, you know, it like ruffled some feathers, but I really think that we needed that to step up our game.

Yeah, it was a challenge.

And it was a challenge. And guess what? We did that. We pulled We pulled as many artists as we possibly could. We We committed to 247 interactivity, being lit up 247. We're lit up all night. We have fire pits running until like 3:00 4 a.m.

Um, we got like this kind of beautiful LED fence out in front of our village that it's it's these 40 40 poles that all light up. And then we were able to this year we got them um They can be they we got new lighting for them like a new I'm not in any way I am an organizer okay I'm not a builder

engineer

so don't confuse me um yeah we have them engineered to like all to the entwined lighting you know entwined the art piece with the trees

oh yeah yeah yeah

yeah so that's Charlie Gatakin

oh

that's Charlie's piece one of Charlie's piece elder mother is a Charlie Gadakin piece. Uh, Crown like he is a iconic Burning Man artist. He's brought so much big art out there, but we he gave us the light.

So, it's going to be synchronized to our music and it's got entwined lighting

and we we just committed, you know, we just committed to, okay, if we want to bring bring it for Esplanade, then we need to bring it. So, that's what we do. And that's how I got started being the mayor is I started helping out and just committing to organizing people and organizing volunteers and organizing all of that. And then people just magically started listening to me and already we're calling you the mayor in 2023.

I find it's not that hard. Yeah. It's kind of like, you know, we used we ran a bar for a long time and at first it was just like we brought all this liquor and all this stuff and people come up and be like, "What do you want? We'll make anything." And people were just like, "H I I don't I don't know. I don't know." And so then we kind of switched to like, you know, we had three fivegallon coolers where I was like, "Okay, this one's a Mai like like this one's a margarita and this one's like" So they come up and like, "Oh, yeah." It's like, "Hey, would you like one of these three things?" And they're just like, "Yeah."

Yeah. Exactly. Right. simplify things.

Yeah,

you know, it's actually not rocket science to organize 21 camps. You have to have a system. You just have to have a system. And so that was actually that's part of what I have helped and it will be my legacy when I stop being the mayor is giving them a structure.

Well, also for a village to to be 30 years old, I there's not many I mean I'm not sure how many camps I mean Thunderdome has been around, you know, but uh Is that like blue light district? I don't know. Uh

center camp. Center camp is 30 years old this year.

You mean like the pavilion?

Yeah.

Yeah. But that's like an org run thing, you know? I mean,

it's true.

I mean because I mean that's another question I want to have. It's like Yeah. Like how how does like something persist for so long like and especially it's like it's like like I said Charlie Gatigan isn't like just like you know running this thing for 30 years straight, right? I mean it's kind of is like new blood. People come in, people will come out, you know, but that the the tradition still holds.

Yeah. I think it's important to that every mayor has had their own flavor and has had added something unique to the village.

And I mean, I when I first came on, I remember looking through the Google Drive for our email and finding like a captain's blog from Paulie Superstar, who is the mayor. in like 2015 and like these are things telling me things that I didn't know that I needed to know. And so I started my own captain's log so that person whoever takes over in 10 years or however long this village last can read through it and kind of see like oh these are the things that need to happen. There's there are certain things that need to happen by the by when date and then the rest is politics and relationships. It's it's relationships with placement and being a good camp lead, making sure you meet your deadline. It's setting up accounts. It's uh making sure you have enough campers

and enough camps and enough art and interactivity to come and bring what we

what we are proposing that we're going to bring. And then the rest is like, okay, we're we're leaving it up to the man, the god. the goddess like

Yeah. Yeah. So, of the the 20 some odd camps that are part of ill like uh is it the same camps like year after year or is it I mean I'm sure it kind of fluctuates like some come some go.

Yeah, it is. It's a mixture. It's a mixture of camps that have been coming for all 30 years. It's some people that have returned. You know, I would say Charlie, he's coming this year. He's our longest running camp. Flaming Lotus Girls, they've been coming for a long time, but they don't always get an honorarium. So, if they don't get an honorarium, they're not coming to Burning Man or they're not they don't need art support. They're just coming as individuals.

It really depends. I would say people come in and come out. There's there's there's a lot of people that go to Burning Man. every year. Sometimes a year off is needed.

Yeah. Yeah. I learned that actually.

Sometimes 10 years off is needed.

Yeah.

I took 13. But yeah, I I think I went straight my first like three or four and then it started to be kind of like you're on, you're off, you know? But

yeah, and I think it's healthy to do that. It's hard like when you're in a position like mine because everyone I'm there's some people that would want me to be the mayor forever, right? But that's a commitment. That means I have to come to Burning Man every year.

Then you really need Pat and Sash. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly.

But quality one, too.

Yeah. Exactly.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, as I always say, like life intrudes, you know? It's it's because like I mean, I think the what I've been noticing that the p pattern is like like quite a lot of people like if you look at the census for almost every particular year like the the bulk of like the age range you if you do like like like 20 to 30 to 40 to 50 like the biggest bulk is usually like 20s maybe 20s30s you know so I think quite a lot of people kind of get into it not everybody you know but quite a lot of people get into it like when they're younger and then yeah then years goes by and

yeah and they're older now

foods and you have kids and you know maybe totally like things change or you move your job, whatever, you know. So, it's like I mean,

we definitely have an older demographic in the village because it's seasoned burners,

but this year we have one whole entire camp of 30 year olds who came to Burning Man one time. They're called Soul Garden. I'm gonna give them a little plug. And then they decided to bring out Big Playa Art.

Awesome.

They're one of our art support camps. And like this is what people like me were like yes this is our legacy right like these are the people who get involved with the village like I was I was in my early 30s mid30s when I started coming to the village and we're the people who have enough energy to take it on to like move the village forward. But one of the things that I like to keep in mind mind. I'm very big on like who came before us. Our ancestors, if you will.

And my ancestors in the village are people like Charlie, our people like Colin, our people like Bana, are people like Paulie Superstar, Julie Danger, who really helped shape this village. And I can't put my own agenda into what I think I want this village to be. There's so many people who have an opinion. in I can just listen and listen well and and execute based off of the original intention of the village which is we are all about art. You know one of the original intentions of the village was everyone brings a piece of art. Everyone everyone in the village even if it's the size of a postage stamp they have to bring art. So we are really all about the art and that is something that I heard from Charlie and I just decided to like implement it. So, every meeting I plug that and which is why we have 40 art pieces coming,

you know, that's big. It's more it's more than we've had in years past for sure.

But whether it's a village or Bernie man as a whole, you know, like

it's like yeah, I mean the original people who first came up with the the village or Bernie man whatever it's like are our aging, you know? I mean there's this like rising sparks thing. It was like oh they want to, you know, bring in, you know, or get the younger blood like, you know, kind of up to speed. But yeah, it's not only just kind of passing off the torch and be like, okay, do whatever you want, but uh but like you said, it's like there there is a history, there is a legacy.

Yeah. And so

like this is where you come from.

Yeah. But it's also I don't think it's like, you know, creating like a I was going to say museum or mausoleum, you know, and it's not like

I think that's already been done. Yeah.

Where it's not like burn it down. It's like let's just recreate everything new from scratch, you know? It's it's like I think it's both the the rising sparks and the the the dying embers.

Absolutely. Can

come together and and and keep the flame alive.

Yeah. And I think that that brings up a good point. There's a lot of mentorship that's that's possible. And I really do hope that younger people step in to leadership.

So, brain.

The younger Wolfie, a little cubby, uh,

following the board,

the younger Wolfie, I don't h So, I've always been a badass b****. Okay, let's be clear.

Um, but I'm looking for another badass b**** to take over for me. When that person shows up,

let's run.

Let's go. You know, I always there can I can pick it out in people the people who show up the people who get their their forms in on time the people who show up early to the meetings or on time to the meetings those are the kind of people that I'm looking for to run the village

you know those people who are pumped you know who are bringing pia art their second year

yeah

you know

that's the thing is like you are looking for it too you know it's not like I'm going to hold on to this you're going to pry it out of my dead hands, you know, like

No. Well, here's the thing. The village doesn't belong to me.

Oh, yeah.

Right. Like, it's really easy to be in a position like mine and be like, it this is my village and I'm going to do whatever I want and I'm Wolfie and I can do whatever I want. No, that's not that's not how this works.

That's right.

If I want it to be if I want the village to continue and be amazing, I need to leave it in good hands.

Yeah. That's why I find like ego at times can be kind of poisonous to burning and it kind of comes out here or there and I'm always just kind of like why you know why?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean

I think there is a I have to have a huge ego to bring this freaking village to Esplanade. Like there's times I have to like talk myself up and into it and like be the big girl, you know,

because like there's a part of me that is that is intimidated that doesn't feel like she knows anything sometimes and how to do anything.

Yeah.

Right. But like that ego comes in handy. It just can't get out of like I can't use it to be in power. I like to be a benevolent leader. You know, everyone matters in my village. Every Everyone matters. Every voice matters. And I can't let everyone's opinions get to me.

Exactly. Well, great power comes great responsibility, right?

Yeah.

But also, it's f****** burning, man, you know? So, there's

there's Yeah. I just don't I don't let the power get to me, but I do let it uplift me, you know, like I get I'm the mayor of a village on esplanade. That is amazing. That shows me that I can pretty much do anything. I can organize anything. I can produce a, you know, a massive amazing beautiful party at Burning Man,

right? Where 1500 people are in my village dancing around and pressing buttons and it's like hedonism at its finest. Like I'm not going to like pretend that that doesn't uplift me. It does. It's why I do it.

That's definitely like my like one of the best like life achievements possible like

Yeah, exactly.

So, okay. Well, one last question before I move on to your background. Um, how would a like if if someone wanted to be part of ill like if they had a camp and they were just like, oh, you know, I have my 10 people like what are your criteria like or who would you let in?

Great question. So, we always artists.

The first question is what are you bringing?

Are you bringing is it a fire art piece? Is it an interactivity? We want to make sure that we curate the village so that it all works together simultaneously.

Um I'm not big on having like bars even though we do have two bars. I don't I'm of the um I I think there's too many bars at Burning Man now that I have access to the airways. I'm going to say it. Uh I did one year no drinking and I went and I was in leadership at Burning Man and it's drove me nuts.

There's no non-alcoholic stuff. Anyway,

well actually that's kind of been changing. There's there's actually a series of like alcohol free like there's a there's a Facebook group called like alcohol-free burners and that's I think Okay.

Oh yeah. And so I think like on Thursday they're going to do like a bar crawl and stuff and

it's funny cuz like my brother and I like we we had a camp years ago, we were thinking about bringing back, not not for this year, but we were the the cult of distraction. And so

we were a bar and yeah, it was pretty much like just drinking all the time. And then after a number of years, my brother discovered, you know, he was an alcoholic. So we're like, yeah,

maybe we can't do that anymore, you know? So then we were thinking of reinventing it. And for the past couple years, it's like I've been making all of these like non-alcoholic recipes

and I've come from like really good And so I came up with this whole idea of like oh you can get like you know the soda gun

and you can like like passion fruit guava. I mean there's like there's all different I mean I've come up with these like amazing amazing drinks. It's like none of them have alcohol in it and it's like amazing.

And then I love that

our idea was like to to pair that and then our longest standing dream of bringing a doughnut machine.

Okay. So if you do your non-alcoholic beverages and donut machine this is the exact thing that we would say hell yes to

right like are you unique? Um are you bringing art? What is your contribution? Because that's really what we're looking for is uh we're looking for those people.

Yeah. Yeah. And my brother definitely he is an artist and he's built some some things. That's why I was kind of interested about the box shop because you know he lives there in San Francisco and I was like oh

yeah, you know,

he should check it out.

Yeah. Yeah.

He might already know about it.

Uh I'll have to ask him. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah. So, that's okay. What's Let's see what other Oh, how would they actually apply? Well, basically, they would go to the website. We have an illumination village.org website and you can find our contact info and just reach out. We will probably have an application up around the time that this episode comes out. So, if you you are thinking like, "Ah, this place sounds awesome," then um go fill out an application.

Elimination village.org.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I'll put that in the show notes, too.

Awesome.

All right. Well, let's get on to our second question now. Um,

great.

So, uh, yeah. Well, what was your life like before Bernie man? Like, I had nothing happened before Burning Man.

No, I think a lot I think a lot happened. Where did you grow up? You know what I mean?

I grew up in the Bay Area. Yeah. I grew up in Pacifica. Little ocean girl, west side.

Uh, Half Moon Bay High School. I had I definitely had a lot of uh let's see you know what the aces are adverse childhood experiences.

Oh

there's a there's a scoring system um out of 10 I have nine adverse childhood experiences.

Wow. Okay.

Out of 10. And this is why I kind of was like I could have been a convict, you know, and or I or I went the complete other direction. I had a parent in prison and I had I've experienced physical and emotional violence. Um I left the house early when I was 18. I am a military dropout, but I did I went through burning. I went through burning. I went through boot camp, Air Force boot camp at 18, which gave me, you know, some confidence and helped me steer me in the right direction, we'll say, in life. And but I've always been an adventurer. I've always kind of like been like, "Oh, I'm going to Hawaii for vacation. Oh, I got a job while I'm there. Okay, f*** it. I'm moving to Hawaii." You know, I lived in Hawaii at 24. I've never been afraid.

Really? Where did you live? Where did you

I lived on the Big Island.

Okay.

I was a waitress.

We're like

I was on uh Konasite.

Konasign. Okay. Yeah. That's definitely like more like the resorts. I mean, more the jobs are. Yeah.

That's where the big cruise ship comes in.

Yeah.

And then drops off, you know, 1,500 Texans

to go shopping and drink and eat barbecue.

Yeah.

And there's definitely different sides of the Big Island. Like there's the Kona, then there's the Hila. And because we're like I started the Hawaii regional like in 2002. And so we had our uh uh 2006, seven and eight, we had a festival there in Puna and I think in the the jungle called Rebirth and

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of like kind of homeless like young people that kind of go there.

Yeah. I mean, you can

Yeah. You know, it's like

you can be homeless on that big island.

Oh, yeah. It's like you don't you're not going to freeze to death. It's like you can find like like forage for like fruit and

food. stuff and fish, you know, it's it's it's it's kind of easy living. And then there's there's different groups of like communal like groups of people,

lots of communities. Yeah.

Well, I had I did not have that experience. I definitely had like very traditional or conventional. I mean unconventional, but my experience growing up was like very normal, like religious kind of Catholic,

but also my dad was in prison and so I was kind of like the trashy Catholic, you know, with the the parent in prison, the bad girl already.

I know.

Yeah. And then I went to But yeah, that's what kind of kid I was. I was, you know, never afraid to do something new or try something new. And after the big island, I lived at a yoga asham for like four months and meditated and did yoga. And then I got myself into massage school and I learned massage and holistic health because I realized like, hey, I cannot party for the rest of my life, which is funny that I'm now the mayor of Burning Man uh village, but um

it's not a party role.

I No, it's not a party role, but a lot of people think that it is. Um but yeah, I I started my own business when I was 26 years old in 2004. I've worked with God, I have thousands of hours of body work with people. Like I said, I taught at transformational festivals like Lightning on a Bottle and Lucidity and some other ones I can't even remember and regionals like Utopia and offered my work there and I started a global women's project and I did a lot of women's circles. So, I've been like I was kind of facilitating and like I said static dance and somatic work before people were even saying the word somatic and I was just a little adventurer trying to figure out how I was going to make my way into the in this world.

Mhm.

So, I've never been I've always been one to adventure. Like even these days, you'll find me when I'm not at home gardening or like painting or doing something, going to school, I'm walking across countries with my siblings. We just we I literally just got back this summer from walking the Torto Blanc, which is a trek in through France, Italy, and Switzerland.

Wow, that's

And you do it on foot.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, like I love camping. I've always been a camper. Like I've just always being stagnant at home doesn't really serve me. I need to be out. I need to be like doing stuff.

Wow.

So, yeah. So, there was a life before Burning Man, let me tell you. It was tumultuous. And there was a lot of challenges and also a lot of ways that I overcame those challenges and a lot of healing work on myself and a lot of like just a lot of the things that find at Burning Man. I was kind of still doing

I was doing it.

Yeah. That's one of the things I'm just fascinated about like with my show is like Yeah. I mean

it's like I said it's not so much focusing on the flames but like you know celebrating the phoenix, you know, it's like

Yeah.

So that kind of gets us to our last question is like the impact of Burning Man on your life. So uh

Oh wow. I think that you know the biggest thing the impact of Burning Man If I didn't have Burning Man, I wouldn't have this life that I have now. Like, I really do owe Burning Man the event, the city, the people. I mean, these people are my family. These are the people that I call when I'm when I want to hang out with someone to when I'm literally losing my s***,

you know? Like I because they know me better than anyone, I think. When you spend a week, two weeks in the desert with people, you become family. Not everyone. Like, there's people where you're like, "Wow, I can never see them again." And then there's people where you're like, "Wow, I have to see you again. Like, I must see you again." And I have some of my best friends from Burning Man. And again, as was referencing before. You know, it's given me a sense of who I am because in 2020 2022, I went through a divorce and I it was like I lost everything. Like I went through 10,000 identity deaths and I I didn't know who I was. And I showed up at Burning Man in 2020. So March was my separation. I was still separated. not divorced yet in August and I had bought I didn't think that I because Wonderboy was also part of Illumination Village. I'm like this is his village. This is he brought me in. And so instead of camping in Illumination Village, I bought camp dues at like three separate camps because I didn't know where I wanted to be. Okay, guess where ended up camping illumination village. So I ended up camping in Illumination Village and I was on the dragon art car when a Lucy Lucy Hosking amazing fire artist iconic epic definitely. She has the Collia. It's the piano flame

car.

So we were on her dragon and I remember I was I'm crying to like I see a couple of my friends from like previous years and I'm like I didn't know if I was supposed to be here because you know it's Wonder Boys camp and they're like this is your family so you belong here. We're going to take care of you. And I felt so included and anchored into this family that I have.

There's nothing like that. Yeah. There is nothing like that. All 230 of them. No,

I consider that my family and and there's people I talk to every day and I wouldn't have I just wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for Bernie man. I also think too I am now leaning into my artist. You know, I worked one-on-one with people for years and led groups and then through in in the 2020s, I got into painting and and making art myself. Like as I told you in the very beginning, like I'm not a builder. I have to learn. I've had to learn all of these things. So, it has opened up my my creativity, that door to my creativity and my abilities. Like, I didn't know that I could draw, but it turns out I actually can draw. But I didn't know I could draw. I didn't know that I could write. I didn't know that I could

because I was just so primed to like make money and kind of hustle and like take care of myself.

I think that's one of the things that Brady Man kind of challenges people to do because I think in in life like people just I don't know. I mean, unless someone kind of like prompts you or something, you know? It's like how do you know if you're good at something unless you try it and like why would you try it unless someone's like, "Hey, try this." You know? I mean, not I think most people are not all that like adventurous, you know, and I think that's something that Brainy Band just kind of just kind of shows you. It's like, hey, you know, like there are possibilities out there. It's like

try that. Yeah.

And then like seeing what people create, it's like, wow, how did you think of that?

It's inspirational.

That is so cool.

Yeah. Or that gives me an idea.

Yeah. So again, when I'm not the mayor, I will probably the next year being bring art. I have this idea that's been slowly cultivating in my head and I really want to do it, but I I'm not going to say what it is because

Yeah. Yeah. Know

someone else might someone else might, you know, do it before I do, which would be fine.

Yeah. I'll tell you off the air, but it's a really good idea.

Oh, awesome.

And I just don't have the bandwidth.

Like right now, I spend 40 hours a week

running this village right now because it's August.

Like how much of your life is taken up with that? Cuz You have your business, you have your life, you I mean family or whatever, you know.

Yeah.

How much has taken up?

Well, I think because I'm self-employed, I've always learned how to manage my time, but right now I'm at like 30 to 40 hours in January. Think of it's like maybe five five hours.

So, seasonal

five hours a week or something like that, talking to people, filling out paperwork,

meetings, and then as as it kind of gets incrementally uh more time consuming. So yeah, like right now I'm probably Yeah, I'm like at 40 hours a week. It's a job.

Today is August 9th. Uh

yeah,

we I leave I leave in nine days.

Okay. So one last question I have for you because we were talking about um uh growing up with you know with with Christianity, Catholicism. How would you compare you know, like your your your history of Christianity is like with your history of like of of your burning family.

Oh, that's a great question. Well, I think that Catholicism is at its core ritualistic.

And what do we do at Burning? We're just doing a big ritual with

a lot more.

So, I don't see Yeah, it's there's a lot more fire, but I will uh I think that when the man burns, you see, you get in touch with God. Like there's no way to not feel something when you see that big of a fire and feel that heat.

And yeah, I just I think it's I mean, I kind of love that I don't there's not a lot of like Christianity or Catholicism there, like religious because it's different, but it's still a ceremony.

It's still a ritual. It's still

it's a community

call. It's a pilgrimage, you know?

It's your family.

That's what I kind of found is like Bernie man religion is like the the one of the biggest commonalities. I mean, like Larry Harvey's famous for saying it's like Bernie man's like the religion without the higher power, you know, like it's the the communion, you know, it's it's the uh the the community. It's people kind of coming together. It's like, you know, if they when it's like the wildfires in in Southern California, it's just like, oh, where can I evacuate? Who can help me? Who's going to pitch in? It's like

it's like members of your church or or community. Yeah.

Yeah. And my next my next partner definitely needs to be a burner and needs to understand because I cannot date a non-burner. They do not get it. And they A it's interesting it comes across I come across even though like I'm amazing right because I because I go to Burning Man I'm a red flag

because of what it stands for to people who don't know what it is.

Oh

it's this like big festival where people just like get naked and have sex and do drugs and to pe that's what it is to people and they don't understand that's not what it is at all.

It's this temporary social experiment that can give you everything that you have imagined and dreamed of

and a lot of access, a lot of doors opening. And that's why I do it. I don't do it to get high every night. Like, I'm in my 40s. I can't even do that s*** anymore. Like, I can't even live like that.

Yeah. Um, I need a good night of sleep. I need to go to bed. I'm tired by 2 am. I'm going to go

like 11.

I know. I'm I know. I'm leaving my friends, you know. I'm like disappearing. They all know this about me.

Oh, yeah.

Like,

well, that was my radical experience at Bradyman last year where I I I yeah, I went to bed by like 11, maybe like midnight. And so, like all my friends were like, "Oh, yeah. We're going to go out and we're going to, you know, do this and that." And like hang out. They're all getting ready. I'm like, "Yeah." And then they all leave and I'm like, "Okay, now I can go. I can go to sleep." And then like I'd wake up in the morning and and then, you know, I', you know, just brighteyed and bushy tailed. I'm like, "Wow, like this is what this is what morning should feel like." My friends are like still up and like, "You're staying up."

No, I just got up and they're like,

I think that's why so many people are like, "I need to have like a tent that has an air conditioner or an RV." And like I'm always like, "Why do you need all this stuff. It's like so you could sleep during the day. It's like why do you sleep during the day?

It's like you're up all night.

Sleep at night, you know? It's like just sleep at night, you know? But

yeah,

to each their own.

Yeah. I like to facilitate that for people like they can go do that for themselves. But I'm gonna make sure that I have to be up by 10:00 a.m. because day mayors show up and they need to be told what to do. They need their checklist. And so I need to get up every morning and walk around the village and see the things that need to be done and taken care of to hand it off to our leadership.

Well, I suppose that's probably one of the prime qualifications of being a camp leader mayor is that you're responsible.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Like where's the mayor? H they're like they did too many drugs and they're just like a kid, you know, like

Yeah. How do you get to help me make around that time then?

No, I have we actually have volunteers. One of the things that happens in the village is you have to volunteer for two shifts in uh that make the village run. So we have like tons I have like a day mayor every day that works from 10 to 4. We have L&T. We have we've got all sorts of people who volunteer all day and night. So I don't have to do all the work. Like I've done all the work. That's why my job is that's why I'm doing it. And

delegation is another key requirement of a good leader.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Otherwise, you will burn out very quickly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right. Well, I think we're kind of reaching the time limit here. Well, thank you so much. This is like like we were talking about before, like you one of my dream guests I've been wanting to have for the whole past year.

Oh my god. Wow. Wow.

Well, thanks for being on the show.

Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you, Andy. And I see you at the burn.

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