EP 34 Dean Barlese

Episode 34 with Dean Barlese is out now! Meet Dean Barlese, a Paiute elder, to explore the complex relationship between the Burning Man festival and the indigenous community whose ancestral lands host the event. Barlese reflects on the historical growth of the gathering since 1990, noting how it has transitioned from a small nuisance to a source of mutual support through solar projects, emergency funding, and cultural exchanges like the land blessing ceremonies. However, the dialogue also highlights significant friction regarding the desecration of sacred sites, specifically the practice of leaving human ashes at the temple against tribal wishes. Beyond the event, the conversation underscores the tribe's current struggle against lithium mining at Thacker Pass, emphasizing the ongoing fight to protect their environment and sovereign rights from industrial exploitation. This interview was done with Dean on the phone so I apologize in advance for any extra noises.

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Transcript

Before we start, I would like to ask your help to do two things. First, tell a friend or two who you think might like the show. And second, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. The more reviews the show gets, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Thank you, and now on to the show. 

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama b**** b**** b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. a burning up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man. 

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Who's that? Oh, it's that Andy. Today our guest is Dean Bariss. Welcome, Dean. Thank you to be here.

Yes. So Dean, you're an elder in the Pyute community, correct?

Yes, I am.

Yeah. So, as we were just talking a little bit before we got on the air, it it's been one of my main goals in this show, you know, because the show is about the Bernie man's impacts and on the people, places, and things. And what bigger impact than in the the Paut Pyute community? So, what What was uh what was your first experience of burning when of burning? Like when did you first hear about it?

I think when they first came out here

was like 1990

something like that.

Yeah. Um

kind of heard about it. They're going to be gathering up there.

But I mean there's been people coming out from San Francisco So probably, you know, probably for years. I mean, I mean, it's definitely ramped up since Burning Man started happening, but uh were there some other people coming out before that?

Oh, there was always people going out to the player.

Yeah. What I know there was uh was it the land sailors, people like that?

Yeah. They had all kinds of things.

Yeah. Um, so 1990. So what was that like when you saw these uh crazy caravans of people coming from San Francisco?

At that time there weren't that many people coming through. It was like normal traffic.

Yeah. And u did you go out there to see what they were doing or uh like when was the first time you actually went out to Birdie Man to to stay or to camp?

To camp was in 2001.

Oh.

So it was going on quite a while before that.

Yeah. Did you did you go and visit um before that?

No.

No. No.

We kind of stayed away. Oh.

Did anyone reach out to the to you or the community? Uh, no, not at that time.

Oh, really? Oh, so what was the first

They were they did talk with our tribe, the console.

Oh, really? Like when like early on or or roughly around 2000 or

um I think it was before in the n late 90s

just to you know let him know what what's going on.

Yeah. And so in 2001, did did uh did they invite you out or you just decide to go for yourself?

Um we worked with Burning Man at that time because we wanted our people to experience I guess people that's living under reservation, you're kind of isolated and you don't get involved with many people.

Mhm.

So, we thought it would be a good idea to get our people to see

Yeah.

the outside world, I guess.

Well, also by then 2001, I mean, you know, they they've been going for almost what, 20 years or no, 10 years?

No, not all. Not every year, but No, but since 1990 because 1990 was the first year that they was what about 80 of them went up there and then it just kept like growing and growing.

Yeah.

I mean became a couple thousand people maybe like mid 90s, right?

Yeah.

And how was the uh I mean I guess it was a kind of a growing impact in your community like I saying like in 19 90 probably didn't even notice the U-Haul trucks, the couple of U-Haul trucks going through.

Yeah. And then the more people started coming through, you know, people started, you know, selling on the roadside food and things like that. And a lot of people started stopping by to buy some So in uh 2001 did uh did you did you did you come as a group or did you camp like by yourself or or who who do you

um at that time they had an area with the Prim Lake tribe.

They had set aside an area where our people could camp together.

Okay.

We all camp together there.

Well, how many how many people I forget how many there was. Not very many people.

And then uh what did you think?

I enjoyed it.

Yeah.

Did you go for the whole week?

We stayed there a whole week.

Yeah. Yeah. So, did you enjoy it and you and uh and did you go back back again.

Yeah, we we've gone back after that.

Oh,

well, I guess it's, you know, it is your your quite literally your backyard.

Yeah. Yeah.

Easier to get there. Um, have you been going every year since then or?

Pretty much almost every year. There were years when we didn't, but almost every year we gone. I've gone.

Oh, and uh how how many or people go? How many how many do you have a a Pyute camp or or do your community have like a central location you guys all camp at?

Um everybody's camps wherever now. You know, they got regular people that they've made friends with over the years and they usually We camp together.

Oh, okay. So, where do you where do you camp?

Where do I camp?

Yeah.

Um, usually at Comfort and Joy.

Comfort and Joy. Okay. How big a camp is that?

It's pretty big. One of the bigger camps.

I mean, they weren't there yet last year, but they're coming this year.

Oh. Okay. Wow. So, um what's the uh impact of Burning Man on your uh in your mind like what

on the tribe or the the traffic is probably the biggest impact.

Yeah.

And before long before you know when it first started the garbage was something else.

Yeah. Was the the garbage become like a growing problem?

But now it's um people set up their places where people can dump garbage and they charge a small fee

so they don't have to haul the garbage all the way back into Reno or wherever.

Yeah. I was heard that there's even you have to be careful like you know who you who you you pay to dump your garbage because I remember there were they're hearing about some unscrupulous people who would take your money collect your garbage and then just dump it down some some desolate road somewhere.

Yeah. Yeah. But you know they they watch it pretty good nowadays.

Oh okay.

I mean they they Then they issue I don't know what you call permits so they can bring in dumpsters for them.

Oh. So is there some sort of sign or something? So if somebody's pulling up and how would they know if

they usually have the little signs set up for people to know where they can dump.

No, how would you bags of garbage? M

but like how would you know that this is

they're also pretty careful you know healthwise

okay so if they have a permit would is that like so somebody's pulling up on the side of the road and they like they want to make sure that like oh this is a a properly permitted

one is like is there some sort of sign or something?

If you see big old dumpsters there you know that they had to go through the permitting process to get there to get Oh,

the ghost dumpsters set up there.

Oh, okay. So, if somebody doesn't have a permit, then what the the police would

Yeah. You you be careful.

But usually they have big dumpsters set out there and then you know the tribe had to approve it.

Yeah. So, traffic trash. Uh I know Bernie man is also like with with Black Rock Solar they but tried to like work with the community.

Black Rock Solar has helped our tribal clinic, our elementary school, our high school, tribal museum, they put up solar panels which really helps out.

Oh wow. Uh are there other ways that the Birdie Man project has uh interfaced or interacted or helped out the Pyute community? Um There are other ways that bring men has helped the tribe.

Yeah. Like like what?

Um law enforcement, things like that. Fire, you know, they contribute money to help the law enforcement here on the reservation, the fire department emergency.

Oh, okay. which is pretty good. Otherwise, you know, we have to go through the government.

Yeah.

And now they're cutting seems to be cutting on everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, with modern state of politics cutting everything, you know, I mean, it's also, you know, it's a very remote rural location. Um, you have to

Yeah. Put in the do everything for yourselves, right?

Yeah. Everyone says, "Oh, the Indians, they get money every month from the government." We don't get blanky blank from the government other than our tribe.

Yeah.

But even then, it's it's continually being cut.

Oh, really?

Now they talk about the health benefits we get as tribal people. You're talking about all the all of that, you know, like

Yeah. like cutting the health benefits,

cutting everything everything down.

Wow.

Healthwise anyway,

and the only reason we get money from the government is in the 1950s they did their claims commission. that that paid for the land that our people had at one time.

Oh, that's just the onetime payment.

One time payment, but they also said we'll get education for the rest for as long as the government exists, healthc care, helping the tribe be a sovereign. independent nation. We are like dependent on the government, but we're sovereign like a sovereign nation within the government of the United States. Something like that. It's complicated.

I mind my I mind my own business. So, I stay out of the government affairs with our tribe.

Yeah.

And with Yeah,

with the government also

but um

do a lot.

True.

Well, I mean it's I think it's a you know Bernie man is a big neighbor to have. It's nice to for you know good neighborly relations to to help out.

Yeah.

Said I mean There's what tens of thousands of people traveling from all over the world, you know, going through your community, you know, to the, you know, the Black Rock Desert, which is your backyard, right? So, I mean, yeah, it's good to be a good neighbor, right?

Yeah.

So, have they been a good neighbor?

Yeah. Yeah. The past few maybe 10 years of been able to go out and do more teachings with Burning Man.

Oh, really? What um why don't you talk about that? What what teachings have you been doing with Burning Man?

Well, we I usually we've been asked to go out and do the blessing on the temple. So, we've been doing that for maybe 15 years.

Okay.

After the temple is completed, we're able to go and do the blessing. before they open the gates. And this Saturday the 26th, no, next Saturday, we'll go out and do a land blessing before they even start with what they call golden spike to start building Black Rock City.

Well, that's really

we they've asked me to go out

and do a land blessing because before previously Before Burning Man even came, we would still go out there. My mom, my dad, and my elders that I know, we do land blessings way out there. So, we continue. I'm like the only elder that's left out of that group. So, I continue on. Okay. Um, yeah, the temple because I know uh within the past few years I never quite knew that people were

leaving cremated remains at the temple.

I mean I mean I always thought that people would just be like oh like like pictures or like little posters or keepsakes or or things. But um I mean if you think about it's like you're building this big wooden temple and like burning it and anything you put in it. I mean the whole like leave no trace you know ethos of of burning man like even if it's like oh something plastic you know it's like you don't want to burn that but uh I don't know I guess in terms of leaving a trace like cremated remains is uh that's I mean maybe not like physically like oh you can't see where the ashes but you know I think like uh that is quite a trace isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. We had a big uh what do you call it? Anyway, we put us kind of put a stop to that. Hopefully

that remains ashes would not be taken out there. I told them just take their memories out there and put it leave it but not the ashes and burning man listen to that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean has Although we should still see a few places where people have left ashes.

No respect in the temple.

That's all that's all we say. No respect.

Only because that land is still to us is still alive with our ancestors.

Okay.

Going back 20,000 years.

Wow.

So it's still like even though it's off the reservation. It's still we're still caretakers and we have to still deal with that, take care of it the best way we can.

Of course.

So, people are still leaving ashes there or or before they burn it, do they actually take out that stuff like that?

Yeah.

I mean, they're trying to be sneaky, so we'll we see it when we go visit the temple. Huh? Yeah. Um Okay. Um

like um we do talks out there at the center camp also sharing really

traditions, culture, spirituality.

Oh, really? Uh how often do you do is like a center camp uh pavilion?

Yeah, we did that last year. We spoke for an hour. And we had question and answers.

Wow. Are you guys going to do it again this year?

I believe so. And we did a deal at um Burners Without Borders.

Okay.

Um um we also did something for the Burning Man Radio. So they interviewed us also tribal members. Anyway,

okay. Does uh does Bernie man ever like sit like go to the the the community and like sit down have like a town hall meeting or anything with you guys?

Um not really. I know they come and talk a tribal council sometimes

and council comes up with some issues. So, but we've never had a like a sit down town hall meeting or whatever with the not the general people membership of the tribe. It was usually the political side.

Yeah. Because I thought had thought of an idea for this show. What if I ever would travel somewhere to do like a live show? I don't know. I was wondering what you would think of it. Like what if I, you know, came there and did a live show for the community and just, you know, pass around the microphone and just

ask people. It's like, you know, what what what do you think the Bernie man the impact of Bernie man is? Do you think that would be a good idea?

I think that would be good. You know, people would get to express themselves, tell them, you know, why it's a good thing. And a lot of People think it's a bad thing, but at least you know somebody will listen to somebody's listening. They'll know somebody's listening.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, that's kind of the whole point of my show is like I want to give you the floor to tell you know every all the listeners it's like you know what what you think you know and

I being good great good great idea.

Yeah. Um Um, any other any other thoughts about the like the impact of Burning Man on on your life or the the community?

On my on my own, I think it's pretty good, but a lot of other like I said, there's a lot of other people that don't think very highly of Burning Man.

But to me, I like it. I've got to make great friends out there.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I often I don't know. I I think for me like one of the greatest gifts of Burning Man is are the connections. It is community, you know, it's like uh breaking the boundaries that you know to divide people. People come from like all over the place, all all sort walks of life. I mean, even though sometimes people don't want to realize it, you know, different political backgrounds even Yeah.

And uh

Yeah. And so we, you know, people make amazing connections

and I think that's kind of what keeps people coming back.

We keep making stronger connections with people out there at Burning Man.

My first comment last year at center camp was, I'm here to change world may not do it, but at least listen to what I got to say. So, we went I think they got on Burning Man somewhere on the Burning Man or you can listen to that whole conversation we had.

Oh, was that in the BMI the radio?

Oh, somewhere out there. Maybe they got recorded. I I think they recorded it somehow.

Oh, is this the the center camp talking you did?

Oh,

videotaped and all that. So, the doctors floating around somewhere.

That's true. Yeah. So, hey. Yeah. How about that whole idea of like, oh, Bernie changing the world? Like, how would that work?

I think everybody takes off their blinders. We can change the world before it's too late. before we destroy this world.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think uh did you read there was um uh Marian Goodell, the CEO Bernie B uh she had a piece in like the Reno, was it the Gazette recently about uh

Did you read that?

No.

Well, basically the the kind of paraphrase or summarize it. I guess it's uh it's about like Bernie man's strength as the movement or community. It is basically the community and it's you know what we're just talking about like like breaking down boundaries and forming lasting connections from people. Uh you know perhaps like you know that's the the great benefit of of Bernie man and how you know we could change the world is like maybe not like going out there and physically doing things for people you know but Yeah. Yeah.

You know, connecting people together and then and then once people kind of realize, you know, that, you know, left or right or right or or red or blue, it's like we're we're not like we're all people living in the same world together.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what our talk was about last year, too.

The world

and as as of today, you know, I do have people So with associated with Burning Man who go there, they come out to the house and are helping me. They help me,

you know, with the prosthetic. We were having so much trouble with Medicare and Medicaid to get it. And one of the guys from Burning Man retired from doing prosthetic work came and built mine for me. So I'm in the process of learning to walk again.

Oh wow. So that's burners helping burners I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what happens. You know, you take a group of strangers and then they, you know, get connected and and then they they see what, you know, what what other needs people have and help out.

Yeah. Yeah. He's become a really close friend now.

Oh, that's amazing. So,

his name his name is Dave Keane.

Dave Ke. Okay. Um, how uh you said do that you have a prosthetic leg. Is it hard to get around like when you're on the play? Like how do you get around? Um, they get us a vehicle or they give us a pass so we can cruise the player, but we had a small vehicle last year and we were able to go and see all the art, which I've never been able to before.

Oh, really? Isn't that was amazing to see some of the art some of the camps.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean the art is half of uh half of the half of the whole thing I would say.

Yeah. The art is something else.

Yeah. Well, it's just it's really hard to get around especially if you have you know mobility issues. Yeah. Yeah. I we're working on getting a scooter, but we have access to like a a little vehicle that'll get us around out there. Otherwise, we'll get a pass for the vehicle, our car, and our truck and just able to cruise. Then we have our friends decorate it for us.

Yeah.

Not out of place. Yeah.

Make an make an art car. Yeah.

I don't know. They should give you a a golf cart.

Yeah.

What would you uh decorate it with?

What would that

Oh, I said uh if you if say Bernie man gave you a golf cart and he said, "Hey, you know, decorate it however you want." What would you uh

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

What would you decorate it with?

I have no idea. that comfort and joy usually have all kinds of things we can throw on there.

Yeah.

Well, I guess it's part of the the radical self-expression, right?

Yeah. Right. Um All right. So, I don't know. Anything else? And about the impact of Burning Man. Let's say you talked about yourself and the community. I know Burning Man, there's people I've met at Burning Man that helped us get what we're doing out into the world.

Mhm.

Um I've been able to do two podcasts. One that was released in June last month.

Oh, really?

And it's uh the wing that get in It's um feasting with the mountain feasting with the mountain lion and that tells a lot about our our attempt to stop a mining site in northern Nevada that is a sacred site and a massacre site from 1865 and Nevada or American lithium or Nevada lithium suing snow. So, we're

Oh, really?

having to deal with that one.

Wow. Well, talk about that. Yeah. Um, that's actually something I don't issue I don't really know much about. Um, American lithium,

Nevada lithium.

No, Nevada lithium. So, there

part of they're out of Canada, Vancouver, American lithium, but um We went out there only because we as tribes we weren't really consulted but they did consult us during CO when all the tribal reservations or council areas or our headquarters were shut down due to co

Mhm.

So BLM pushed that through and gave them the lithium mine access to start the mining.

I didn't I didn't hear about that till later on.

That place was a massacre site and the remains were still out there.

Aren't there laws? I I know like where I live here in Hawaii, if you're anything that you build, like if you're doing any kind of excavation, like you have to have like archaeologists like involved like anytime you uncover like any kind of like bones or anything it's like work just like stops and then you know the archaeologists have to come in and you know it might actually alter the plans you know cuz it's like you're not supposed to disturb remains I mean are is there any similar provisions there

there is here in Nevada but because They have their old mining law from 18 what 72 something like that.

Uhhuh.

If they find minerals or something that's worth money, they're able to go in no matter what and mine. It don't matter if it's a massacre site, sacred site. So, we we're always butting heads with the BLM here in Nevada. So, if it's a sacred site or it's a massacre site or, you know, you start digging, you find bones, they're just like, "Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop." But then like, "No, no,

money's involved." It's like, "Oh, go ahead."

Yeah, really.

Changes everything. They do have laws like Nagra, Native American Grave Protection Repatriation Act, but

the laws aren't that strong here in Nevada. He go go to California and it's way different

on other places, but here in Nevada is pretty much open. Mining companies, corporations can come in and tear the land up and have no consequences other than making money.

Yeah. Considered a wasteland

really. What about the the gypsum mine? Like that's that's been open there for many years. Was that a similar kind of thing?

It's been open for many many years.

Yeah. Well, was that uh kind of a similar thing when that first opened were or different different sites?

It was a different time at that time when it first opened. It was way before they even had any kind of laws recording native people. And the names of native people or the sacred sites of native people.

So, do you think things have changed for the better over time?

I'm hoping it does have an impact. At least they know the laws now, the federal laws, make the law. So,

so this Nevada lithium like this is the Is it the the Bureau of Land Management gave them a a lease? Is this just like a like public land or something?

Yeah, public land. So they wanted to mine lithium there

and the it was done like in my opinion underhanded. They lied lied to the federal judge in Reno. Both sides lied to the federal judge in Reno saying there's no such thing as a massacre there. No such thing as a sacred site, but BLM had records from 18 a year after 1865 that whoever was out there doing the studies, there were human remains still scattered all over the ground out there.

So, if if it's a sacred site or a massacre site, like is there some sort of like designation or like like a park or something? I mean,

no. Um, a lot of our sites from that time are we know where they're at because our elders told us what happened during that time and where things happened.

Would you think there would be is there a process where I mean I suppose if there was like the political will within the government but uh to have it that site like designated as like a like a national like historical site or something.

Yeah, there should have been but because the mines want that place Biden administration pushed it through and when Trump came in they pushed it through even further.

So what's the status of it right now?

Right. Now we're fundraising for lawyer fees and it's still they haven't thrown it out.

So you're you're suing Nevada Lithium to

No, they're suing us.

Oh, they're suing you

because we went out and protested. We went out and protested there.

Stopped the mining for a couple days. But you could be sued for protesting. I mean, isn't that just like free speech?

Yeah. Yeah.

We couldn't go out there and do our prayers.

So, we're not allowed to go out there now.

Were they saying like you're trespassing or something or

Yes, we're trespassing on their right to mine lithium. Anyway, it's a big gi giant um thick pile of paper that I was served with.

Six of us.

Um have what is the status of the mining operations?

Like have they started?

Right. They started but right now they're on a cease and desist order from one of the ranchers for taking water. which they did not have a right to do.

A

and this mine is going to take so much water, ground water and from up there in that area. People don't realize this is a dry state in the union also.

Oh yeah.

And they're going to use so many I forget how many millions of gallons of water to get the lithium out. and bringing in all these other toxins to contaminate the water and the land even more.

Wow.

Like a 300 foot deep open mine.

Really?

Yeah.

That's huge. No, I' I've heard that uh like you said, it's very dry desert, right? I mean, the water rights are some of the most contentious issues out there, right?

Yes. They are.

Yeah. I mean, so if you're I just imagine stealing someone's water, it wouldn't go over very well.

Like like the rancher, he sued, you know, he went to court and got him stopped cuz he has to make his living off the alalfa for his cattle and horses or whatever. His lifestyle in his life.

So how So what do you think's going to happen? I mean, if they if Well, if they can't get water, I mean, can they even do their operation without water?

Yeah. I I think they'll push it through anyway.

Wow. Wow. Well, if um if anyone out there listening to this like wants to help out, is there any way that um anyone can like contact you or or the

You can go into like I guess Facebook or other areas protect black pass or what we call pe and there's ways you can donate.

So what's the name of the Facebook group again? Is this protect what?

Backer pass.

You spell that?

Backer. T H A C K E R. pass DS.

I'm sure there's other ways you can find it.

Yeah.

Yeah. In the show notes, I'll I'll put a link to this.

Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, if I'm sure there'll be people listening to will help out and get involved and like if you know, perhaps like, you know, maybe help donate, but uh Uh yeah, I mean this show actually is going to be going out in like December. Sorry, it's right now for listeners. It's July 19th,

but

we'll see. We'll see what happens.

Wow. So, the lawsuit's happening right now.

Toss that lawsuit out and continue on.

Wow. Wow. And

administration that's in power now. I know they're going to do that, you know, listen to the courts or whatever. and just push it through.

Yeah, there was something about, you know, uh, President Trump wants to sell off public lands and I remember like looking at some of these maps and I was like, "Oh, let's look at Nevada."

There was it it seemed like a a number of areas around there. I was like, "Oh, I remember I know some people like on Facebook and on social media like, "Oh, Bernie man could buy the Black Rock Desert." Like, yeah,

I don't think that's going to happen.

Yeah, at least you'd be safe.

Yeah, not going to strip mine it. But what uh and what about with the prospect of that you're you're saying like the the massacre site like what if that was could be like designated as like a sort of historical place? Is that is that a possibility or It may be able. We may be able to do that if the mind stops. But stop.

Oh, so the mind would have to stop first.

You couldn't stop the mind by having it

declared such a thing.

Oh, you're traveling.

It was a That's sad.

So, we're still in our conflicts with the government the minds.

Well, listeners, if you want to help out, I'll in the show notes, I'll put a link to this Facebook protecter pass.

Yeah. All right. Well,

yeah, I think they got websites where you can go go on to Okay.

find out more.

Yeah. So, yeah. So, you're going to be out at uh Burning Man this year. You said you going to be at Comfort and We're working on that. We're working on that because I have to come all the way back home. Well, the as tribal members, we go in and out passes to get into Burning Man and come back out. But I myself, I have to come out like Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays to catch a ride into Reno to do my dialysis.

Oh wow.

We've been able to do that last year and the year before.

So, You know

that's a long ride a week

coming out of Burning Man. It'll be even longer.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully there won't be too much traffic in the middle of the week, right?

Wow. All right. Well, this has been a wonderful interview. Uh, anything else uh you want to leave the listeners with or

No, it's been a good

Well, thank you for your

used to doing interviews. We get so many people coming in talking to me.

Well, it's been a pleasure and and a wonder and a joy and thank you for for being on my show and talking to the community. And

like I said, this has been a

it would be good for you to come out and talk to other people. Yeah.

Yeah. Um well, okay. Well, I maybe after the show, I'd like to if we can keep in touch if you could help me. Maybe I mean, not sure when I could do this, but uh not not very soon, but uh yeah, I would love to like come out there, do like a community kind of meeting, town hall, pass the microphone around. I mean I mean, as I I tell people like I'm not there's no answer I'm looking for.

Right. So, it's like whatever you have to say is what's going to be said.

Yeah.

And Yeah. I'd love it if you know maybe a couple of like the Bernie man founders could be there too, you know, just to sit and listen.

Yeah. Yeah, that would be good,

you know. I think that would that would be awesome. Right. Right. Well, thank you so much team, this has been wonderful and uh let's let's stay in touch and uh we'll talk again soon.

Yeah, stay in touch and that would be good.

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