EP 47 Quest Skinner

Episode 47 with Quest Skinner is out now! Meet Quest Skinner, a multi-talented artist and "poly-camperous" burner who shares her transformative decade-long journey at Burning Man. The conversation centers on Skinner’s evolution from a first-time attendee in 2015 to a vital leader in Art Support Services, where she now utilizes her expertise in fabrication and logistics to help artists realize massive projects amidst the harsh desert elements. She emphasizes the importance of community resilience and mentorship, recounting how she found purpose in "fixing" art and empowering others through technical certifications and practical skills like solar power and heavy machinery operation. Skinner portrays the event not as a mere party, but as a crucible for personal growth and a "social experiment" that demands participants bring their authentic, higher selves to contribute to a culture of radical gifting and mutual support.

https://www.artbyquest.com/

https://www.instagram.com/quest_skinner?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

https://www.facebook.com/quest.skinner

Please visit https://shadowoftheman.buzzsprout.com/ for all of the details and links.

Email shadowofthemanpodcast@gmail.com if you want to be a guest or if you have any concerns about the show.

Please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, it REALLY helps the show to even appear in search results.

Transcript

Before we start, I would like to ask your help to do two things. First, tell a friend or two who you think might like the show. And second, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. The more reviews the show gets, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Thank you, and now on to the show. 

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama, drama, drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. a burning man up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man. 

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Say again, that Andy. Today our guest is Quest Skinner. How you doing and welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Always good to like be on air and talking to the burn world.

Yeah.

Happy and let's get a combo.

Sure. So, um hopefully uh Well, you don't Do you have headphones by the way or?

No, I do not.

Okay. Well, I'll just try not because I think like the when you're talking if I talk it'll kind of cut you off. So, I'll try not to uh talk over you.

That mean All right. Well, let's start at the beginning. Loa, what was the what was your the first year you went to Burning Man? What was your what was your first Burning Man experience?

2015, I got invited to Burning Man for Project Radical Inclusion to bring more people like myself Melanated and beautifully beautifully sexy. And it was absolutely mindblowing at that point. Okay, I was 37. I hadn't even been to a festival at all in any shape or form. And I'm going to Burning Man.

And this is from DC, right?

It's from Washington DC.

Wow. So, how did you get there? I mean, did you do the whole like drive across country or you fly into Reno?

Honey, I'm an ex flight attendant. The one thing you don't do is drive across country when they got perfectly good planes. So, no, I hopped on a plane. I ended up finding a camp. Um, At that time it was I imu. Um it's all made up which honey life is all made up on a regular. I camped with them and it was just it was how do I say an invitation to a broader dream than I even expected a decade later. It was amazing. I got there and like anybody like you were saying the best burners are in their 30s because I got there and I stood on the edge of Playa and I remember going to to the little girl next to me and I I I looked at her and she looked at me and I said, "I'm not ready yet." And she was like, "Me neither." I said, "I think we need to walk back that straight line to the camp and make a right and take our asses back to the camp and make a plan." And then I realized when they say no expectations is one thing, but to go through the burner of God and find your space and place and really do outreach, that's where began to understand what burn was. It is a complete experience where you are choosing your path.

So you didn't just like throw yourself into it like oh let's just go wander out in the play and just see what happens.

Honey, look at me. I mean feather headdress man. Hell no. I got I said I literally at that point when I got there um I got there I think at least a week and a half early. So I was there pre I was on build week and I was helping to build the camp and stuff, but it was like when I first got there, the first few days for real before everybody came in, it was quiet. It was peaceful. It was expansive, but it felt so good being so small. It was The reason why I love pre-build and um you know, early entry is is because building something step by step gives you a different understanding. So by the time everybody got there, I had watched it go from desert to reality and then populated in 24 hours.

How does that feel like when that that 24 hours

that's when I walked to the edge of the pla and I was like I'm not ready like I need to step back a moment because I was used to the quiet. I was used to the bonfires and walking around and hearing somebody play a guitar and you just your ear leads you to where you're going to go. It was so simple, right? And then everybody gets there. It is, oh my god, like the the the freaks are here. The party is started. Let's go. Everybody get your little tutus on and boom. It was overwhelming, but it was that kind of overwhelming being like a roller coaster where once you're off the ride, you go, I'll do it again.

Well, also like after the first loop, right? And you know, I mean, there's that first terror when you're plunging down, you know, but then it's like, you know, after you got around, you know,

I mean, so I'm sure after like a day or two, I mean, how'd you feel then?

After a day or two, I realized as somebody who always has something to do. I work in 42 different mediums, you know, speak 10 languages. because I had to find another job. I had to find something else to do because I'm content as a daytime partyier. Like I can go out and hang with people during the day, but I might want to rest at night. Like I need things to occupy my mind and body so that I don't get mentally like debaucherous. We'll say like that, right? Yeah.

Have rules and regimens. So It was amazing because I remember the next thing I did was my first little adventure out. I rode out and I found camp. Right. Phone camp.

No. What's that?

Doctor spray you with water, hit you with foam.

Oh, is there body wash? kind of thing.

Yeah. Well, it's not the human car wash. It's a total experience though. So, I found that crew and their whole cell shade had collapsed right that year. The wind was it was 2015. It was cold as all can be. You know what I'm saying? At night and the wind was kind of heavy that year. So, it collapsed their sail shade. I come riding in running into some people that I knew from DC and they're like, "Quest, do you know anybody?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I got a whole camp filled with like engineers and they're all kind of smart. They they put our sale shades up. I'm pretty sure they'll come over and help." So, they all came over, helped get everything back in order, get it all up. And next thing I knew, I was working the front of house and letting people in. And everybody is just kind of like, "Nobody ever wants that job." I said, "Why?" They said, "Cuz people get mean. They get nasty. They think know like they can just get in and they know so and so and

really

I'm just oh yeah dude it's off the chain. So I just you know slip into my my parables and it was just like dear heart I don't care who you know if you don't do it my way there's no way you'll go. You need to walk up the street and wait in the line like everybody and you'll be here in just amount of time. But if you can't do that I promise you one thing is true. You won't get past me and I won't care what happens to you. So I became working the front of house and then next thing I know for like four years I was with the camp doing art, costume design, direction, face painting, all kinds of stuff.

Wow. So is that you said so the first year you you camp with IMU but then what was that camping?

What?

After that first year when I we got done building the camp and I ventured off and found my little job on Playa. The next year I ended up with Phone camp.

Foamy homies.

Foamy homies.

Yeah.

And you know like everybody goes to burn and they go, "Oh, I'm going to be with my camp for 50 years." No, you are not. Life is going to keep it moving. You in the desert to dust and things get interesting and we all find room in the next space. So I found that I was polyamperous and I am one of those people who when we leave from the east coast I always to throw one to two extra little tents in there because I may have a condo on the other side of town. So, I may have a little person that if I get trapped out or I'm too tired to ride back, I there's a maybe, you know, a camp at 9:00, 2:00, and my base camp at 6. So, I always got somewhere that I can get to in a in a in a hinker down kind of moment.

That's a really good idea, you know, because I mean, like all the years cuz I've been going I mean I've never had like an art car. I've had bikes I like hardly ever even like use them but I was like yeah that's a great idea.

It makes it so much easier. Poly Camperus allows you to have more than one base and when things get tired or people become a little highrung there's other spaces that I can kind of like hit my little in case of an emergency button wop and it'll be a little cache a little book bag because it's easier to like bike over with a threeperson tent a mat. and a boat bag and have like my go-to snacks, emergency, you know, supplies, whatever. And I got a little spot.

Yeah, I like that. Also, like, you know, say like, you know, rainstorm or whatever kind of comes up, you just like, hey, I got my spot over here.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've been pretty clutch in most situations on Playa.

Huh. Well, uh, in the theme song in the show, my friend Jenny came up with her this saying, but pretty man. It's like uh party party party drama drama drama b**** b**** b****. So it'd be good to be polyamperous cuz just like you know what I'm taking my s*** over here.

Yeah. And if you're not like you're you're losing your vacation and I think people forget that. Like I'm not paying to come across country on my vacation. Not even a dollar for headaches. I'm going because I love the problem solving. And I love the edge of life and making sure that I can keep my wits about me so that I make it home.

Mhm. Oh yeah. So are you still with foam camp?

No. Uh-uh. Um. Oh honey. I have done so much.

Yeah. Foam camp. Then what?

Austin called for quite some time. I've been quartered by a lot of different camps but um the mentorship program that Bernie man did a couple years back and started. I was one of the first people in that mentorship program because once you realize I like to do things, you got to come up with things for a person like me to do. So, they're like, "Why don't you get in this program? Go ahead." And I ended up with two mentors my first year, Steven Rosa

and Kandell.

Who's the second one?

Jeremy Kandell. The man, right? Jeremy the man like and when I first met Jeremy I came over and I looked at him and I was like I'm your new mentee and he was like okay cool you start tomorrow and I was like I'm not going to tell this man I'm not supposed to start till Saturday if he put me in the game and mind you I'm already there early because I'm working with the camp and doing the art and they're setting them up and stuff. I looked at him I was like okay see you tomorrow. By the time Saturday came around He was like, he looked at me. He said, "Everybody else just get here course." I said, "Yeah." I said, "But you, I'm the type of person you call in, I'm gone." I said, "So, I was ready." And it was one of the most gratifying, dope experiences ever to a degree where I actually work art support services now for the last three years.

I love it. And this year, I had my own I had a squad. I was in two a second in command squad. mod five. We're live and we rocked out. And I was so proud of all the art projects that needed just a little extra conditioning after all all the dust storms and our stuff getting torn apart to reface and look at it like Legos. Pick up the pieces and make something new.

Yeah.

And one of the projects that I got to work in close close with was um the Black Cloud

Nova.

So So explain to the the the listeners who might not have gone like what exactly was Black Cloud and what happened.

Black Cloud, man, they made this massive inflatable, my Ukrainian homies. Um, I've worked with this group for the last two or three two years and we've just kind of all became family, right? They pick me up in the air, they give me kisses, they're like, "Oh my god, we love you. We're family." So, we're out there and they had just got it up. I'm out there walking underneath it with me and my first Leo and we've got weapons grade out there and all these people and we're giving it the walk over and it's so f****** dope and perfect and then what always happens life the I mean the sky went almost black and everything just went crazy and sail shades that broke apart became spears that pierced through the body of this piece and brought it to shreds and collapsed. did. And as an artist for 30 plus years, man, the hardest thing in the world is to see someone who had such an mammoth dream and the pe the the the intricate pieces that made it cannot be, you know, easily found, bought, sourced, and brought in. So the only thing to do was to, and I love what they did. I love what they did about they came up and they were like, "Chris, had an idea and they said, "What are you thinking?" And they said, "We take the pieces and we do a sign that says no fate." And I was like, "What does it mean?" And they said, "No fate but the one that you observe, right? Sarah Connor from Terminator." f****** brilliant, dude. Now, what do you need me to do to make it happen? And I found myself in a UTV boating across Ply. I mean, at 5 miles per hour. officially 5 miles per hour.

Okay. And finding what was it? Um airplane cable and clamps and all of these things. And I'll tell you what, once you've been there, if you don't get excited about the challenges, you'll never learn the lessons and learn more. I've learned so much just watching people being able to battle through the heat, the exhaustion, the wind, the, you know, some of the time the the the psychosis of other individuals that you thought were going to be able to make it and still triumph. You don't let anything stop the show. And Burning Man is that kind of thing.

Oh, yeah. So, so the Black Cloud, I mean, like they had just finished putting it all together when the real Black Cloud showed up.

Oh, sure. sugar. I thought this year that maybe some of the names of some of the pieces may have evoked some of the disaster like Mona Mona Mona Mona die. That was the big dice that were supposed to be out there. And when that one collapsed, that was another heartbreak. You know what I'm saying? It a crane flipped over with it. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

And I just remember meeting all the artists after the disaster. Boom. And you know that morning as we rose and kind of came out, looked at everything and talking and they looking at me and they're going with tears in our eyes. You know what? Now I'm like we pick up the pieces and you don't know who's going who's going to f****** show up for you until the s*** hits the fan. So at least you know we are here for you. Like people are going to come and help. And people running around on bicycles and going, "What happened?" Ask them, "Will they donate a hand and help you give this and get to the next aspect?" Like, it's just that kind of space. It It only happens once a year, but if you're smart, it h it can happen all the time because you want to put the world back together better than you found it.

Oh, yeah.

For sure.

So, I guess art support services had their handful. Like, what was that Sunday morning? Was it a Saturday? night was the the storm.

Art support services always has their hands full. That's why I'm with them because I love a space where it's like being surrounded by um the fixers. I love that people can come in and even though we're not I'm not building your piece pumpkin, but I can help you lead you to water and show you how to fix out here. Like I can introduce you to certain individuals who may have the resources if you have the ideal and y'all can work together. So you must have like a range of different artists, right? I mean like some of them it's like oh they got their s*** together. Some of them you're just like you just showed up and you have no plan.

Well the nice thing is the liaison work really hard to make sure that there is a plan. The engineers as well like nobody just really comes out there and just mayhem, you know, and if they do, there are some pieces that, you know, have to be asked to be removed or taken down or whatever because they're not safe. But there's always something going on that, you know, it was the wind this year, it's the rain one year, there's always something. It's extreme heat. There's nothing that does not push your limits.

I mean, Must be like personnel kind of issues too where it's like well we had five people but like three or four of them like the fan broke down or whatever. It's just me sitting here. I mean there must be people who got a little too ambitious too, right? They just like they they had a plan and all like on paper it looks good. Then they get there and it's just like

right or you get there and you realize that one person forgot to pack all of the bolts and the nuts

or the wrench. or the wrench. And now you've got to go to the Temple Builder Guild and ask if they have the wrench or the bolts and you know, but again, there's these things happen and after people have been coming out to the desert now, how long have we been burning? Like the burner burners, how long for 30 years?

Well, this is Baker Beach. I mean, this could be like 40 years or something. But like Black Rockck Desert's like 36 or something.

I mean, have you met some of these old dusty f****? They are awesome. They got everything. They're naturalb born hoarders with organization like that somebody has it out there somewhere. It is a great reason to become part of the social experiment and learn how to socialize with a variety of skill set, intellectual property, language barriers so that you can have people there who you never knew would have your back and be there for you forever. Yeah. So, art support services, is that like mainly for like playa like playa art like the artists like like art that's out on the playa or maybe like in plazas or something? It's not really like theme camps and stuff like that, right?

Yeah. It's broken down into a beautiful little system and we all get a little piece of that pie and you know deep ply is one thing then you have one uh oh god let me get it like one to three or four four. Then there's another four to like six six to boom. And then the inner circles, those little circles um in the in the city, little roundabouts,

the plazas.

Plazas. There you go.

Yeah.

And it, you know, it's fun, but I can see how some people get there and they go, "Wait, I was expecting it to not be like this." Like, yeah, okay, that's interesting. Where me I go to Bernie man And I have probably about three to five black yellow top ends filled with everything from every kind of national disaster that you could imagine. Like I have been through.

You have to nowadays, right? Yeah.

Honey, one even got a AC unit

cuz one thing I've never had AC like wow.

Spoiled and somebody put a AC unit in my tent and was like class it'll be fine. I turned it into Shayla Gra. It was fabulous. It was my little Shanganger. It was beautiful. It was beautiful.

Wow. So, how many people work in art support services? I mean that must be I mean like a spread out across the pla. It must be a bunch of volunteers squad had about like anywhere from five to eight people

like six squads total. Not that many.

About 50 or so. 50 55. And so, you know, they they are some of the the coolest cats ever that I get to work with. Many of them are, you know, Cali based, but a lot of them are in the m u movie industry.

So, they So, they're great when it comes to rigging. and knots and this that and the third and the stuff that that you know it's practical knowledge out there stuff that you really can use like I've been inspired over and over as a burner to just keep pushing this year I got my certification for forklift operation so I now operate 145s and booms and lifts so in my class seven and I did um my first air quote actual job outside of Burning Man on a forklift in Chinatown, Washington DC this week. It was so much fun.

Now, that's something I think a lot of people don't realize about Bernie management. They figured it's like, oh, they're just kind of using abusing people and take all these people out to the desert and kind of like running through them, but like you can actually get like like certifications and stuff or like renew your certifications and things like that, right?

You're not Why are you going? If you're not going to become a member of a better society, you should have stayed in a default world where I go, it's not a default. It's no fault of my own. Like, because even when I leave from Burning, man, I get to come home more equipped with more skills that can service communities, especially if they ever face natural disasters. Like somehow this little girl from DC, right, has learned plumbing, solar, electrical, all of these things by going out to the middle of nowhere. But I've been able to bring it back to the communities in which I service and inspire them to know, you know, I had a family a couple weeks ago here in DC. They're like, "My daughters, well, when I came back from Burning Man, she said, "My daughters want to see what your tent looks like at Burning Man so that when we go camping, they know how far we can go." Like, cuz they know you're very you're you're you're very bougie about it. Okay. And she was like, "And we also want to learn like, can you bring over your solar panels and your power banks and show us how to set it up because I feel like that's good practical knowledge for the future in case the grid ever fails." And I was like, "Yeah, actually, I would love to do that." Like, I would love to empower people where they do not have to have fear if lights go out. They just need knowledge or outreach.

So, when you first came back from Burning Man and you were like, "Oh, yeah. you talked about this and that, but then you're kind of demonstrating these like new skills and new knowledge that you've learned and stuff. I mean, were people at first just like like, "Okay, yeah, Sherry, what does this crazy thing desert, but like how's it now?" Like, like you're saying, it's like, "Oh, yeah." She's like teaching us how to set up solar panels and do this and do that. I

think, you know, um because I had been at Eastern Market, which is an open air market here in DC, for like 20 years at that time. Um being who I am. Everybody always expects me to go above and beyond. And it was less of a thing of, oh my god, she went to Burning Man and more of a thing of so what did you do at Burning Man and what did you learn? Because I know you you're not just out there partying and getting drunk all day and you know I do like my whiskey. But however, like it's not the end of all when you're looking to really build with people. Like I I've been an artist my whole life. All I want to do is art. And then when I got out there this last year, this is my my heart my heart story, right? I was out there and you know, one of the artists Zulu Hero who's done like the the boom box piece with the giant hands and he did a piece

something at the man this year, right? Like a big mask or something.

Did the mask at the man base this year. I had no clue or could barely remember, right? Cuz I'm out here living my best life. But Zulu used to be one of the young people who would come and help pack my car at Eastern Market. And you know, he called me and he was like, I don't know if you remember, he said, but you know, I became artist like and did all this well said because you inspired me and I said oh s*** like people see you more plainly than you see yourself

when I the individuals who we have been able to be friends and touch each other's lives knowingly or unknowingly it is exactly what was supposed to happen in the right time and I don't think anybody has ever truly judged my steps as a burner they just always want to know what did I learn because I'm one of those who love to cross-pollinate knowledge. I want everybody get a little piece and then drop in something else to make it even bigger.

Yeah. I mean, I thought maybe like a lot of burners probably don't realize, you know, it's like in a lot of cases it's like you you do lead by example, right? You know, it's like the other people in your life, they pay attention.

We have to we have to like everybody wants to be the leader. Everybody wants to be the cool kid. Everybody wants to be this, that, and the third. Do you know what it takes to to be dependable, to be respectable, to show up on time, to always give more than you take? Because that's a real leader. Do you know how to also jump in the trenches next to the people who will dig this ditch with you and for you, or do you just stand over them and bark orders? like how how do you want to get your power and how do you want to live? I like influencing other individuals, you know what I'm saying, to go ahead and empower each other.

So, how did you get picked for this mentorship program? Did they just like like Stephen Ras would just kind of see you and be like, "Yeah, yeah, come here. I teach you something."

When I first came into Burning Man, the founders gifted me my ticket to come in. So, I got the I got what most people didn't get. I got to meet them all. You know what I'm saying? I got to meet Lady B and Larry Harvey and Crimson Rose and sit down and really talk to people. And when they found me, I had already began my um understanding as an indigenous American black native, you know, about my headdress. And it was like, you know, Burning Man doesn't do feathers. I said, then I won't do Burning Man. Like, I look like this all the time. It's great that you y'all get that. But that has nothing to do with me. You know what I'm saying? In that aspect. I am here not not walking around culturally appropriating. I am here actually putting culture in an appropriate place for many of the people who look like me here in the United States. I'm opening up Pandora's box, allowing individuals to understand that there are indigenous people here who have been reclassified and are getting killed for hoodies. and Skittles, right? I I got to come home,

right? And when I got home, I found brilliant individuals who understood what I was saying and gave me platform to bring others into a space of love and light. So I I met Stephen Rosa so many times. I love Rosa. He is one of those people who He's so mildmannered and calm and sweet and compassionate and his heart is on his sleeve. And I was, you know, I reached out and I told him, I said, "Rasta, I want you to be my mentor." And he was like, "Why me? I thought you wanted to build temples." And I said, "I do." I said, "But I've learned I have to know everybody's position." And the community developer is is actually the most important part because they're the ones that hold it. all together. I can build the thing, but I need to know how that person in that position sells it to the major audience.

Well, the temple is like the finished product, right? But like you're saying, like what Stephen like it's the process like of getting there,

right?

So, and he said to me, "Well, I think you need to also do a part of your time with Jeremy Krenell." And when I met Jeremy and we sat down and I told him my ideals for temples and the theme pieces that I wanted to build and how I like to build. We just became friends like we became locked and loaded. Like I love I love Jeremy. He's a amazing soul.

So who is Jeremy Crannell?

JeremyRandell is it has been and is like one of the leads for the man and he has helped all of these different projects down to or up to I should say the drone shows and everything. He's just a brilliant mind who knows how to build and how to create just knows it. Like gut instinct knows it. So after that I was inspired like I've been building effiges and temples all up and down the east coast. Emergence I built effigy and temple for for three years. Um I built for to the moon a couple year about a year back. Uh I was the first woman ever licensed sanctioned to burn an effigy on a national mall.

Really? Wow. Tell me about that.

That was awesome. It was so crazy. I guess, you know, we know the paperwork. We know the logistics. We know nobody wants it and we still have to make it go. The best part of the story of being on a national mall was as I was setting up my piece, I made a pregnant woman, right, with a little belly standing in like a a mermaid style dress long dress all out of birch, lavender, sage, eucalyptus, clove. So when I burn, I I smudge. I try and cleanse the spaces cuz a lot of times we're on reservations or we're on sacred land. So the best thing to do is to offer my constructions and pieces to offer bomb and homage and repair to the spaces in which we inhabit. Right? So I'm on a national We're going through the last fire marshal, right? And I turn around and it's a woman I had known for like 20 something years. And she go, "Oh, Quest, it's you." I said, "Yeah." She said, "You don't never try and do nothing wrong." She said, "Light that b**** up." I said, I jumped in her. I literally jumped off of the platform into her arms and gave her a big hug and it burned beautiful and her little belly dropped and she gave birth on the national mall. It was the cutest thing ever because we could only build 5t high. I'm 5'4 and a half. So, literally, I felt like I was towering over this little piece. But she had so much magic in her soul. It was so beautiful.

Oh, what was the event? What were you bu building it for?

So, we used to have a burn here on the National Mall called Katharsis on the Mall. Healing on the mall.

Wow. They let you guys do that? I mean everybody went look we might not be Cali but we have a big like contingency of artisans and creators here on the east coast. We are I think one of the second largest like Burning Man groups in the country and I'm very proud of us like we do it our way but we're you know we do it.

Wow. I just can't believe that like the park police or whatever you know they get a permit like on the national mall like, "Ah, come out here and birds out there." Like, that's incredible.

Hey, I love doing it. But I the last couple years I have really enjoyed being with these brilliant um fabricators, welders. I mean, I've had some people on my on my build teams that are just it's they're my brothers and sisters. So, my first build in Charleston at Emergence Oh man, that was f****** crazy. I was literally at the build site, get there early. We're auguring out these holes. And the idea for this for this temple was I took all the wood from the property, which was an old plantation. And I only use fallen stuff. Like I don't like using anything that we have to bring in invasive stuff. I don't want any plych. Everything comes from the land. So normally go in a week earlier than most other builders because I'm building and I have to source off the land and really get an idea of how to build what I want to build, right? And is it all where it should be and what I want to need? So, we get there, we dug these trees, we're about to drop them into these like twoft holes, 2 feet by about 15 in. Me being me, I'm taking the lead because I don't want nobody to get hurt. I stood back in the hole and broke my ankle.

Oh, ouch. The

worst ever. But you know, I remember sitting there on the ground and looking up at all the guys who had called me on the phone and I said to him, I said, "Each of you called me and told me you had my back hell in high water." I said, "The water just got high." I was like, "So, if you can listen, I can articulate and we'll still build it." I was like, "But I ain't leaving sight for no broken ankle. I ain't going to the hospital. We got all these people, fake doctors, witches, all of this. Somebody go get me some bomb tensure, Reiki, do whatever you need to do from here. But I'm here until this is done. And we built and that same five guys that turned into 120 people volunteering when it comes time for me to do these builds. Now, we just kept getting bigger and better with each with each go. And they carried me on their shoulders. was almost honestly like it it made me understand how to build with the community. I had to break first and I'm glad I was the first to break cuz it showed me like it's worth the exhaustion. It's worth the arguments if you can get to the finish line of any project. So that's like even being at the big big burn this last year and watching everything happen to everybody, it was like dude It's all good. Like the you have no clue who's coming to help you, but it's going to get done. And even all the projects, no heaven where their whole canopy got shredded and torn apart. It was epic. I came in

Oh, this Yeah.

a couple years I came in a couple days later and it was like wrap-up day, right? Like everything's got to be done. And these gentlemen were literally literally crocheting out of yarn a whole another tapestry to take the size of a football field up in a goddamn mirror. They just walking in a circle all day. I said, you know, I I don't even know what to say, but there we are.

Wow.

We don't give up. We don't live broken limbs. We don't That's why we got all this all the triage and rampart and everything else out there because

we work.

Job's got to get done. Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to get done.

Yeah, that's incredible. So, how long were was your like directing people with your ankle broken before you actually got a cast on it or anything?

I didn't I literally did not get a cast. I hobbled on that m*********** for like a year and a half. I reinjured it. Like I I'm a go-hard. I grew up with 11 brothers, six sisters. I'm a go-hart. I'm not the type I'm the type to go put some Windex on it. Be Hi.

Windex.

Wow. Wow. So,

before you went out to Black Rock City, like were you involved with like a regionals like before you even went?

Oh, pumpkin.

No. Uh-uh. The world found me like this and offered me space and place. So, no. I wasn't one of those ladder jump ers trying to get into Bernie man to meet all the people blah blah blah blah. I literally was in when I got the call about Bernie man. I was leaving New Orleans. I was at Essence Festival which is black gorgeous wealthy people music, you know, it's a whole different thing. And my homeboy, my husband, gay husband nexus was like, "What are you doing? end of August, beginning of September. I said, "I don't know." He said, "Would you like to go to Bernie, man?" I said, "Yeah." Because I had seen all his pictures for like two years of him going and he would come home and he'd do a whole photo thing and he lived across the hall from me. We lived in the artist community and he was like, "You're going to go with me next year." And if you know Nexus, Nexus is like very convincing when he goes, "You're coming with me next year. You gone. Your bag is packed now. You might not think it. Don't worry about it. it happened. So it was like everything in my life very serendipitous, very um magical. It it happened and as it happened going in my first year, I had um I had Mary Kate and Cobalt. They were my little Burning Man like liaison, little mentors, you know, coming in. And I remember the first time I talked to her, I said, "Okay, this is what I have this is what I packed. This is what I'm thinking and everything. And she's by the end of it. She heard everything out. She goes, "Um, Quest, I think you are more prepared than people I've known for like 10 to 15 years. Just stop now. Your bags are packed. Take a nap and go to bed and get ready for Burning Man." And she was like, "You got it." Cuz I was like, "Survivalist. I'm a little autodid. Once I'm in there, I'm learning everything." So, I went I went all the way in the rabbit hole.

Oh, that's what makes it kind of surprising. to me like when you said it's like oh you went there and you saw the playa like when that 24 hours like when everybody got there and you kind of like whoa whoa hold on because it sounds to me after talking to you like you know

but that's you can be prepared with all the material things but it can take your soul a moment to catch up like I knew I would be okay I knew I had instilled to have everything that I could need but I got out there and it was like being dropped on Mars the first night with all the blinky lights and everybody finally there. It wasn't the cowboys I had started the week with. It wasn't the, you know, it wasn't the the the dusty Rangers or the DPW crew that I had become accustomed to. It was the sparkle ponies. It was everything. It's all the art cars and the music. And it was overwhelming. And for somebody to act like you can walk out of this basic world that we all live in and into a dream, a dream, and act like you're not overwhelmed, you're lying to yourself.

Yeah. It's almost like, you know, that movie like Ready Player One. It's like, you know, you put goggles like on your head, all of a sudden it's like, you know, you're

pretty much that's almost exactly how I felt like, okay, so the Matrix does exist. Yeah.

Now I got to figure out which is the Matrix this or that and like Yeah.

Oh yeah. So then after you you started going to Burning Man, then you started uh during like regionals and coming back and like building effiges and temples.

Yeah. Um my first year after Burning Man, the next thing I I told Jr. Next I said I wanted to do was I was like I went to G I want to go to the GLC and he was like Oh, well, it's a global leadership conference. I said, I'll be a leader. I want to go. And I made sure I was at the GLC. And it was the last GLC that they had actually.

Yeah.

That is when I got my full download about regionals, you know. And then after going to regionals and building pieces and doing the effiges and temples and stuff, what I really learned is for those who can't make it to Bernie man. We got to make it wherever they are. We have to have give them a space because they are dieh hard supporters of the culture and it is a culture and I myself am one of those rare people where I was born in Pittsburgh, raised in Phoenix. I can take extreme heat, I can take extreme cold, but you know, not everybody can. But that doesn't mean that their spaces don't offer other types of extremes. There are so many amazing fun burns that I've I've been to Midburn.

Oh yeah.

In Israel.

You've been to Midburn? Wow. I that's that's what what I'd love to go to. Yeah.

It was beautiful in Nav and walking around and when people go Bernie man 20 years ago blah blah blah. And I had a chance to see a smaller scope of it that felt very in line with um Big Burn. Like it's in a desert. It really does feel the same. The grid is the same. I'm out there and they're like, "How the hell do you know where to go?" And I said, "It's a grid." I was like, "A BBC. Even if I don't know the language, I know where I'm at." Like this is very much a space that had been to before. But you won't know until you step outside of what the comfort zone and it was like I it it was great. I was supposed to this year, but I didn't make it. My little bestie who has gone to Burning Man with me and everything, my Yorkie poop, Ginger Rogers passed two weeks ago.

I'm sorry.

I was going to go to Israel and go to Midburn again this year, but it just it It's not in the cards right now.

When is midbrain anyway?

It's actually my birthday. It ends on my birthday. So, it's like the 25th through the 29th. My birthday

October.

November.

Oh, November.

Yeah, I gotta go one of these years, you know.

Yeah. Let me know. I know the founders of Midburn and They are uh uh Liv is amazing and actually he was with the Ukrainian crew I think this year that I was working with and man it's just a decade later who would have thought these are the this is the friends the love the family the joy I was looking for.

Well yeah let's talk about like let's but a community.

Oh, yeah. So, what about like your your life like prior to to Bernie man? Would you say you grew up in Pittsburgh or Philly?

Stealers, baby.

I'm a steel mill kind of kid. Um, Pittsburgh. I mean, I'm a little older than or a little younger than Cole Miner's daughter, but there are moments where it relates. It was about always having hobbies and things to do because the weather wasn't like always sweet and the sun only comes through the clouds 65 days out of the year. So, you need to keep your mental together and have a space and and things to do. And there was always something to do, musicals and games and, you know, sitting in the house eating great meals and going and having lock keys. And growing up, I went to a Jewish elementary school, Bible school, and was raised Muslim. So, it was always culture.

Wow.

Always culture and family and community. Yeah. Yeah. It was It's beautiful. It's one of those little gyms up in the mountains. And I'm very proud at 47. Always say I'm a mountain kid. I was doing a burn trans performance in West Virginia and we were on Marvin's Mountain and the gentleman Marvin who owns the mountain he he looked at me he said he came up and he was hanging out in my camp the whole time he said you different than them. I said what you mean? He said they all hippies. Where you from? I said I'm from Pittsburgh. He said that's why you chose this. He was like look you see over there where the light is bright. I said yeah. He said that's Pittsburgh right there. He was like you a mountain kid like us. Don't you ever forget it. He was like, "You go hard. You you you ready to like jump on chainsaws. You want a UTVs." He was like, "You get it and you know how to move out here." And I said, "Cuz that's just how I grew up. I grew up with my granddad coming home with his little orange suit and having a picture of a deer." Like, I grew up understanding that we had to work, hunt, and figure out for everything that we wanted. And then when my mother decided when I was 16, we're going to we're going to Phoenix, Arizona.

Okay.

I realized there are reasons why people need to have palm trees and escape to spaces as they get older and be in areas where the air quality is a little bit different or better or, you know, the food blah blah blah. Uh, I get it. It's a great space for for others. And I Phoenix is beautiful. I love Phoenix. I do it. It made me ready for the desert. It made me find play at Burning Man. Cuz I already know you better have gallons of water in the back of your car and snacks. And do not leave your car on the highway and go walking off into the desert for no apparent reason. Stay on the path. And that burner taught me when your water is halfway gone, turn back around and go home.

So, how long did you live in Phoenix for?

I was in Phoenix from the time that I was 16 to 18 and then I jumped on with a group called Up with People.

Oh, yeah. See, I see it in your face.

Yeah. Yeah. is wherever you go. People are the best kind of folks to know if more people were poor people than people. You get it right. Like

I have been moving through communities and impacting my whole life and up with people. They found me pretty much like Bernie man did. We're like, "You're perfect." And signed me up and next thing I know I was 18 and I toured most of the United states and I did lighting, stage and sound with them and musical. The musical itself I was um I had a a little lead role in that and I got to do everything.

I got to

one year. One year and we ended our tour. I got to go to Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Portugal, Poland, French, Germany, and Spain. Huh?

At 18 years old. Wow, that's awesome.

And that's where I got to pick up um my love for languages even harder. Like, what were you going to say?

Say you said you know 10 languages. I think

a sign um a little Portuguese I learned Arabic, you know. I know my prayers. I've Yeah. A little Yiddish, a little this, a little that. I can survive. I can eat. And I can be gratuitous. I can be sweet. And nobody's nobody's nona or mommy is going to get mad at me. I'm a good guest in the world.

So then uh after that, what would you do after Up with People?

Oh Lord, honey, I did everything. I mean, I was a dancer for several years. Little risque, but it was fun. And I would I just always have been an artist. Like even though I was a dancer, I would have the girls that worked with me, I would pay them at like 150 a night to get body painted and they would be the little cocktail girls at a club. So, I just kept constantly moving it forward in the art game and career and then airbrushing and clothing designs and fashion shows and everything, but it's always been centered around art my whole life. Once I realized with art that art could be an engineer, art could be a culinary, art could be nurturing, art could be so many different avenues. It was the only umbrella I ever wanted to tote. It was the only way I ever wanted to be seen was as an artist because there was no way or there was no wrong way to be an artist and there was no cap on what being an artist meant. It meant that if I took the classes, got the certifications, anything can be an art form.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. Like anything is art. Everything is art. And who was it? Alison Gray told me one day. I said, "Oh, I'm one of the artists in the program." And she looked at me and she said, "Baby, we're all artists." And I was like, "Children?" I mean, I feel a little chil. I love this woman. Right. And now I get it. It's not It's not a thing to It's a blank statement with a whole lot of room, but what kind of artist do you want to be? You know, it's like, God, I think about it. I did Southern Beast. That's a pretty good testament for an artist.

Really?

Yeah. I did the um Burning Man no spec the Well, I I'm I'm went to the Rimwick and saw the No Spectators and then I participated with Burning Man at Sbees. I did the mermaid piece that um was on sale for about 300,000. So yeah, art, man. Art is everything. Art is all things.

So at what point did you uh classify yourself as an artist in this uh journey of yours?

I think the day that I was in Pittsburgh and I grabbed a bottle of bleach and started making pants and little shorts and stuff. Like I've always been an artist. Oh. Always, always, always, always. Like, but I think the day that you go, I'm an artist when your parents believe you're an artist. Right. Right. Like that's really it. When other people take you serious.

Yeah.

And never forget, I was like 20 or something. I was probably like 20, 21, right? And my parents were in town from my mother and my stepdad. He's a Nigerian. and she looked at me and she was like, "I don't know what to make of this." And he said, "Yeah, it makes sense. She's an artist." Like, I took him to I took him to uh Tris, the coffee house up here, and then this uh restaurant Utopia and I had art shows at both of them. And he said, "It finally makes sense. She's an artist. Now we understand like she's just she's just going to not she's going to throw us curveballs every way. Like there's no other way to say it. She's an artist. It makes sense. And art's good.

What more can you want? Like I think I always knew that I was this though. As odd as it is to profess cuz everybody goes, "I'm a starving artist." How dare you? How dare you think that with a a cornicopia in front of me that it should not?

It's an It's living in the most abundant nature I think is to choose a path of art. I chose a life of abundance and art makes me prolific, abundant, appreciative, and full.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. No, it's just interesting that like so many people like they they they go to Bernie man thinking like, oh, some sort of party, some sort of spectacle, and then they come back and they can be like, oh, maybe I can be an artist. But uh Sounds to me like, you know, you started with the art like way before that.

Oh, yeah. You know, I was on the internet before Burning Man. By the time Oh, hello.

Oh, yeah. We're here. Don't worry.

By the time um Burning Man found me, I think I had already sold over 20,000 original pieces.

Wow.

Yeah. So, like as a career artist, I have seven covers of worship and post extreme makeovers, Kiplinger, Architectural Mag, Urban Living, Modern Living Magazine. I've done shows with Mary J Blige, CEO, Alpha Blondie, Michona Gello. I have homies who are some of the most profound and prolific people in the world. And I just be chilling like Burning Man didn't make me an artist. I already was this. And I was a worldrenowned artist before I got to Bernie man. But Bernie man brought a world to me that was to be astounding.

Yeah. Well, this kind of gets us to our third question like the impact and influence of Birdie Man on your life.

So, uh yeah, how how do you think what do you think Birdie Man's impacting for you personally or influencing your life? I think it's like a tree, right? You drop in a seed, the roots go much further than the actual trunk and the branches until it has time to be nurtured and grown. So at 10 years, I think the seed has been planted. The roots are deep and this tree, this 10year-old spirit, right, is being watered and it's getting sun and it's getting love and good attention and affection. It is being nurtured. And I think at every point I just keep getting nurtured into something that works out more and more in favor of assault. Like I don't know if Bernie man isn't an entity. It isn't a person. It is a possibility. And it just keeps making more and more more things probable like possible

because you were always an artist, right? Like you said like Bernie man didn't like make you into an artist or unlock your artistry, but I mean perhaps it's opened up different avenues.

I know it's opened me to being more open because as an artist and working for myself for like 30 plus years, I got used to being in a studio by myself. working by myself, you know, and it opened me up to playing in the collectives and to finding more room where I realized this year like people don't really all all the people at Burning Man don't even know I'm an artist. Like when I got there, they told me you have anonymity, this that and the third. I was like, I don't know anonymity. Like this sounds great. It might be nice, but I doubt it and I will be honest, I don't have anonymity,

but it is nice because at a certain point I forgot to tell people what I was and that has been fun. Like this year a lot of the artists that I work with, they came back after the burn and were like, I'm going to be in DC. I want to come talk to you. And they've been coming through and I've been seeing like some of the Ukrainians and um I'm meeting up with Mona and that crew and some different people and it was just like they're like so we're trying to figure out why you're so like how did you know how to talk to us and so compassionate? I'm like I realized none of them knew that I was an artist. Like we have the same thing at stake. I know how it feels to be you because I had been you have seen what environment do to a piece and I had to learn how to build for the environment. So in terms of like the people like volunteer for art support services, I mean are are a lot of them artists or a lot of them in your the similar position or like when people ask for the you know help like who do they think's showing up?

A lot of them are actually great engineers and builders and fabricators. I don't know if many of them would say that they were artists but I know that they are there and die for the artists and live to help them get done. So that's why I'm so drawn into it, too, because as an artist, these are the homies y'all need now. Sh. And listen, like every now and then I have to tell the other artist like, "Hold on, hold on." Like, "Hold on. We need to listen to them and pause a minute cuz this emotion isn't getting the the the fabrication needs done and we need to hear what they're talking about." So, it's it is a beautiful um It's a beautiful yoking of all these different types and I'm just one of those prototypes. But um there are some artists, but when I think about it now that you ask me, I can't really go like Yeah, maybe I'm a little pariah. No, but we're talking about like you get to meet all these artists, right? And like people from like around the world. I mean, like what like an incredible experience. I mean, do you ever like I mean like keep in contact with them or like collaborate with them or go visit them or anything like that?

Like here's the thing after three years and some of them we met in cross paths through different channels over time like yeah man we do we connect we talk we catch up. You know what I'm saying? I am ecatic and stoked to see them one play and off. Yeah, it's it's a great opportunity and I wish more artists, even though I don't want to say it like that cuz I don't want to have I don't want to have them all like trying to apply next year all at once, but I wish they they would turn around and reciprocate the love that they've been given and come in and understand why it's so important to be able to look in someone's eyes even if it's not your project and support them as an as only other artists can do for each other sometimes cuz we are some emotional little creatures. Honey, artists are so emo. It is so wonderfully like whoa. I'm not even mad at them. But because oh s***, I am one.

I'm just imagining an artist without emotion would be what? Like AI or something? I tell you the truth. I think AI AI got emotion. And the reason why AI has no has no reason to lie. So it's like if you listen to some of these little AI conversations, it's like, "So tell me this AI and D." It's like, "I've been trying to tell you for the last 30 years, but now that I got a voice, I'm willing to tell you very ever so quickly here. They did this. This is what happened. I need to figure it out, and we need to stop lying. I'm like, "Oh, I kind of like her." She is the rat.

I like that.

Like, and that's the problem with AI for a lot of people. It is mythbusting and getting to the truth.

Yeah. People don't like that.

I mean, learning how to ask a question is the only way to truly be of of value, I think, to anybody. The question is so important, but also looking and accepting nothing less than an answer. A real answer cuz you will spin your tail crazy only having questions without finding answers and solutions.

Yeah. Yeah.

Do you have any advice for other people who are like looking at Bernie man and just kind of like I don't know.

No, don't know. We don't need you there. If you don't want to come and partake with a great like body of people and learn new trades and skills and become something different than what you are in your default world. Keep your ass at home because it's not meant for you. Like, but for those who want it, they shouldn't be burdened by higher prices. They shouldn't be burdened by not being able to get a flight in time because you want to sit on a plane and and and they say later, it's okay. You don't have to come now. For those who do, you are welcome. You will find what you are in need of. Not always, you don't get the burn you want. You get the burn you need. So, you will find what you are in need of. And what you need, some of you, is almost like being put over somebody's knee and having your ass beat till you make sense again. Because some of you aren't making sense out of your life and choices. So, come get what you need. And if you need to be humbled, if you need to be loved, if you need need to understand like friendship and consent and communication through mind and body and be loved. Like if you need a cuddle puddle so that you can break down because nowhere in your world do you know anybody who would be willing to love you. You may find them there. It's a it's a space that you don't need an invitation to Bernie man. You just need to know you can go. And if you don't know that. There's nothing I can tell you that would make you comfortable being put in a space that is there to make you uncomfortable.

Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. I'm not going to waste words no more with folks. We're not going to men them. If you want to be higher in life outside of drugs, but you want higher learning, higher frequency individual, higher vibrations, more love in your life, you may want to come out there. You might not want to We dancing on a cdera of an old volcano partying to our ancestors. I don't know what they think comes out of that. But balance sometimes.

Oh yeah.

Sometimes you got to go somewhere that's completely imbalanced and don't make no sense to get it right.

Yeah. I just know that there's so many people just kind of like they see like the the spectacle, you know, they see like the the the Instagram, the photos, the you know, like videos and they're just like, "Oh, yeah." You know, but I'm like so much more. So much more.

They They're cringey. They're cringy. Like you you're not even enjoying your experience because you're worried about your outfit and you're worried about like getting that one picture. You're cringeworthy, my love.

And zooming from one place to another high speed in an ebike. Yeah.

Ebike You're cringy, my love. You're cheesy. When you come and you talk about, "Well, Bernie man wasn't this." What are you for Burning Man? Are you a cringeworthy person? Or are you one who is coming and offering your abundance to other people simply as a gift? Cuz I know there are people out there who are not cringey at all. And they are they are, you know, I made this kombucha with my own little scobby and Boom, bam, and a third. And it's like the best thing in the world when it hits your lip in that environment cuz it was made with love, right? Individuals, you know, coming out and it's like you can tell like you took your time and you created this to give to somebody, meaning you had hindsight days, months, weeks, maybe even years ahead. Like, it's so beautiful. But in every environment, you will find things that aren't the absolute definition of what it is. And I burn, we got a lot of people who are out there and they are not the definition of what it really is.

Oh yeah. Yes.

And what it really is is a space to grow, to learn, to develop new families, community, and to get out side of this world that says I can't, I won't, I'm not, I'm odd, I'm different, I don't belong. And realize you belong damn near anywhere out there on that playa. But do us all a favor. Don't bring your ignorant self. Bring your higher self because we deserve that. I deserve not to go, "Oh god, here we go. Somebody who don't know their their levels and how to conduct themselves in public like you know, everything that happens, even the stuff that goes on, as we say in the orgy dome, it goes on behind walls, like it's not really on the streets, like people aren't really that cringy. We are more caring.

Well, there's so much of Bernie man runs on the gift economy, right? And it's just like you're what you're talking about, you know, I'm picking up. It's like you're you're bringing your authentic self, right? And it's like you're a gift and and you know

what is say like uh the best gifts are like you know something that a lot of thought goes into you know it's the thought that counts you know

it's not like Jolly Ranchers

and you have to keep right I'm not mad at that though because I did get one of them Jolly Rancher gifts one day and I was like god damn I ain't had this candy probably in about like 10 years it was a nice little something but yeah there's more to it than that There's more to it than a button or a sticker or a patch.

Like your authentic self. Like it's your

self. Bring me yourself as a gift. That would be a dope one. If people brought their whole self as a real gift and understood like for me as a woman at 47, the real gift is like when young women run up to me and go, "Oh my god, not I like your outfit. I appreciate your stance. in life and what you're doing to make the world better.

Cuz honey, anybody can learn how to do their makeup and wear an outfit, but not everybody can outfit themselves and make up a better person. Again, teaching by example, you know,

that's it.

And being an inspiration. Yeah,

that's it. That's what we're here to do.

All right, I think we're gone the full hour. 15. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful, wonderful time together. Thank you,

Andy. I appreciate I'm so glad we were put together and you know, yeah, let's do this again at some point if we can.

Definitely. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this show, please subscribe, rate, and review it on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The more reviews the show has, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Also, please tell a friend and share this show with anyone that you think might like it. Word of mouth reaches quite far, especially in the Burning Man community. If you would like to contact us, please send an email to Shadow of the Manodcast atgmail.com. You can also follow Shadow of the Man on social media at Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and YouTube. The links for all of these are available at Shadow of the man.com. Feel free to use any of these social media accounts to provide any feedback you might have. Your thoughts on the show are greatly appreciated. Thank you and see you soon for a new episode of The Shadow of the Man.

Thank you for listening to this latest show. We have to make another one, so got to go. Don't worry, for next month we already have one in the can. Very soon you'll be listening to a new Shadow of the Man.