EP 66 Dana Albany

Episode 66 with Dana Albany is out now! Meet Dana Albany, a long-time artist whose life was radically redirected by her experiences at Burning Man. Originally a microbiology student, Dana describes her transition from the sciences to the arts after discovering a passion for participation and industrial tools while volunteering to build the Man. Her story highlights the collaborative spirit of the desert community, specifically how Dana’s mentorship under figures like Larry Harvey and Pepe Ozan empowered her to create large-scale works, such as her iconic bone tree. A central narrative in her story is the story of the Monumental Mammoth, a project Albany guided for a young Girl Scout that eventually became a symbol of healing and community transformation. Her story illustrates how the festival serves as a catalyst for self-expression, turning amateurs into professional artists and fostering deep, lifelong creative connections.

https://www.danaalbanyart.com/

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Transcript

Before we start, I would like to ask your help to do two things. First, tell a friend or two who you think might like the show. And second, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. The more reviews the show gets, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Thank you, and now on to the show. 

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama b**** b**** b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. of burning up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man. 

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. You didn't know? Yep, it's that Andy. Today our guest is the one and the only Dana Albany. Welcome, Dana. Thank you.

So, Dana, right now you have a one of your sculptures like uh is it the Embaradero in San Francisco? Your mermaid?

Yes.

Something. Wow.

Yeah. Mhm.

So, you're a long long time artist like Yeah. I' I've been pouring over like just different books of like photography and I was just looking at like was it 2,000 bodies of knowledge, you know? was sculpture of a uh someone like reading like made all out of books like rear. I don't know. We'll we'll talk about all that stuff. But so what was um what was your first year like what got you to go to to Black Rock City? When was that?

Um okay. So my first year was in 1994 and I was in school studying science and this girl walked in and she um she was very striking woman and she was all covered in dust and white and she sat down next to me and I'm just like where the hell did you roll in from and she told me that she had just been out in the desert and this whole experience and about Burning Man and it and um anyways we became great friends at that moment because it sounded fascinating to me and so this friendship just developed over the year and Then when the next year rolled around, um, she goes, "Hey, you want to go to Burning Man?" And I'm like, "Absolutely." So, uh, I went in 1994 and I believe there were was the population then was about a thousand people.

Wow.

Um, Yeah. Yeah. It was very different. Um, but it was a lot of It was just wonderful. It was very fun. It had the theme camps, you know, and and it was so zany and wild. And I think what struck me most you you used to help pull the man up. There was ropes on either side.

So, there was a lot of participation in being able to, you know, help erect him and and a lot of chaos and frenzy and fun and whimsy and and creativity.

And so, I was truly inspired and I think the one thing that inspired me the most was the whole idea and concept that um everybody is a participant and everybody as an artist and you know and that you're supposed to participate and it's not like you know this is like some you know wild freak show but you can you know join along you know and and I was truly inspired by that and I was inspired by all of the creativity at that point mind you it wasn't the there were sculptures there was not the grandio sculptures that there are today but there were some pretty amazing sculptures back then um u this man Pepe Ozan he used to do these operas out there and he would build these sculptures. He came through um desert site works where these artists would go out into the desert or different areas and they would use the earth on their sculptures and he used mud from the hot springs. He would build these metal armatures and then case them with mud

and then do a whole performance and then light it on fire and so forth. But um so that was pretty spectacular and later on he became a true mentor of mine and and and a and a good friend. But

did you ever participate in the the opera?

In the opera? I did. Yeah, I was in the temp in the Rudra Opera and I made many things for the opera. I made several props for the opera. Um Pepe with Yeah, he was it was great. And I was in um I I preferred more so to be on the creative side rather than the performance side,

but I was in Rudra and I had a one a great time. What year was Rudra?

Oh god, that's going to elude me. But I'm gonna say 98.

I think it was 98.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, you remember the operas?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. My first year was 96 and that was the

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you know, I think I was in that one, too.

Because I just interviewed um

um your name It's horrible. Um Oh, Justin. Incredible.

That's what I was going to say. Justin. Yeah, I love Justin.

Yeah, I also interviewed Paradox Pollock and Oh, also um

Oh, wow. Oh, you got all of them. I love it.

And uh I love it.

Twan was just out here and he was telling me,

"Oh, nice."

It was funny cuz like, you know, I always ask people to send me like a picture of themselves, you know, I could use for like the episode art, right? And I was like, "Oh." And I always say, you just kind of throw it out there like preferably like you know something from the playa like your your first year like if you if you have it I mean some people do you know a lot of people like oh I don't have that you know but so yeah I mean you know Tuan like he's not quite bald but you know like I mean he's like older he's like 60s you know you know and so he sent me this picture of him with like his long flowing hair and like goatee and everything I was like who's this and he was like that's me you know And I was like, uh, like, wow.

I'll try and find a picture for you.

Sure. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so you went in '94 with your your friend and and so only a thousand people.

I mean, I imagine it was probably a little more I mean, Bernie Mint is very kind of friendly even even nowadays, you know. Oh, yeah.

But I imagine with a thousand people, there's probably like a little more like open and inviting.

It Well, you know, Yeah. I mean, it's it's It's it it felt very open and inviting. It it truly did. And I mean, mind you, I didn't know what I was getting into. So, thousand people seemed like a lot of people to me, you know.

Um, but it was very very open and inviting and um and and truly just wonderful and everything was special. You know, it's interesting to see how it's grown over the years.

Um, and I'm not one of those people But like say, "Oh, it was better back then than it is now." Cuz I think each has its attributes and great qualities about different like Yeah.

Always different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was a def definitely. I think there was you felt a a stronger sense of intimacy though.

Yeah. I mean, I actually took 13 years off and went back. So between 2011 and and then back.

That's huge.

Yeah. Yeah. I always jokingly like tell people it's like, "Oh, I just skipped this whole like era of like you know when it was like sold out like so my my last year was the first year it sold out and then my first year back was the first year it didn't sell out I just kind of skipped that whole middle part where I was like what what is this whole pay for play camps and stuff like ah it makes no sense

I know wildm it's still the core of it is still the same you know I mean some of the major differences like I always tell people is like Well, you don't see as many cigarette butts on the ground as before and uh or or glow sticks uh technologies changed. But also just the other thing is like just walking around and just like just overhearing conversations people like just so many like foreign languages, you know?

Yeah.

It's incredible.

Yeah. It's really grown like I mean so it's not the same as it was but you know it's different in in some ways better.

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, I agree.

So, you're studying science and so then you you start getting you get bit by the artistic bug.

I did. I absolutely did. I did not plan that whatsoever. Not in a million years. Yeah. I was studying microbiology and

interestingly enough, I mean, I thought I was going to work for the CDC. I wanted to be, you know, a virus detector. I thought I was going to go out in the field, you know, in different countries and Um, you know, and try

the next Tony Fouchy.

Pardon?

You're gonna be the next Fouchy.

Yes. Ah, no. Um, no. Uh, but I I went to Bernie man. So, the next year I went and I um and I thought, ooh, you know, maybe I can uh participate in something. And, you know, and I also thought, oh, I'm going to build something. Mind you, I don't, you know, I've never built anything in my life. You know, I have absolutely no idea how I'm going to do this. Um,

other than I did help, like I helped these prop makers once build this structure. So, I had a kind of tiny idea, but not really. And I what I did was I went and I volunteered to help build the man.

Oh.

And back in those days, they used to do it at this guy Chris Campbell's house. in his backyard in South San Francisco.

Oh,

it was so fun. And so, you know, I just drove down to South San Francisco and in his backyard they were building the man. Um, and it was my first introduction to power tools. And prior to that, I grew up in Venice Beach, no tools, you know, no experience whatsoever with tools. And I and you know, I was studying science. So, it was a radical, huge, amazing change in my life. I instantly fell in love with our tools. I loved them. I love what they could do. I love, okay, here you go. Cut. Cut. You know, here, you know, put this together, you know, here's a screw. I just love the magic of it. And it was so empowering and inspiring. And I used a lot of the wood left over from the man build. Um, and I built a camel in my little apartment in the lower hat um in the living room. And And I built it out of the uh wood left over from then. Yeah, the scraps. And also I found a pallet like down the street. I used that um and chicken wire. My whole concept was I was going to paperier-mâché this thing. So it took up the whole living room sideways. And the first attempt I could not get it out the door. So I had to like slim it down. And um and I lived with this silly papier-mâché camel, you know, for about a month and a half and I I didn't even know how I was going to get it there but luckily enough I had met you know people from the man build and you know they said okay we'll get you in the truck you know so it went in a truck following the man the following year. Yeah it was really awesome and and I had a I had some help you know that came to the apartment while I was making this thing you know a little structural help.

Yeah. Well that was going to be my my first one of my first questions was Like cuz I mean I remember like living in San Francisco like and my my brother was blessed to like have this we lived well not together but like you know we both lived in like Noi Valley and he lived in this apartment that had possibly one of the largest backyards I'd seen in San Francisco. It was like 55 by 65. It was like this gigantic like backyard behind this duplex and then

and you know we would like throw these parties there and then he there was like this tiny little like in the basement he kind of like made this tiny little like workshop, you know, but I was just imagining you, you know, it's like, okay, I'm studying microbiology and you have like some little apartment somewhere. Like it's like, well, where would you build anything? Cuz that's like one of the hardest things, especially in S in San Francisco, you know, like trying to find a space like to build something and then then you got to transport it, you know?

Yeah,

I did not think this planned through whatsoever. I have to tell you, I didn't I think at that point I didn't even know there were places where you build things, you know. I mean, I knew they were building in the backyard at Chris Campbell's The Man. Um, but when I decided I wanted to build something, it was this tiny tiny little apartment in the lower hat. And there was no backyard, you know, it was like six units in a rooftop. And um so I just, you know, so in my not well thoughtout plan, I decided to build this thing in the living room. And um and it was was um it was absolutely fun. I loved it. It took over the whole entire living room. And then, like I said, the first attempt was too big to get out the door, so I had to do uh the second attempt. And I had it like

um in pieces like it was um the the legs were separate from the body and it was on kind of a carrying Yeah. I got help. I got help. I learned a lot while building the man and I met some amazing construction friends that are still friends of mine. And in fact, um, one of them who was in charge of the build, Dan Miller.

Oh, yeah.

Um, I'm

I'm going to help build the, um, a brain for the man out of Driftwood this year. He cycles it around the city, Black Rock City. Yeah.

And he collects people's thoughts and then it goes into the man and we burn with it.

Yeah. I actually interviewed So, he's carried on this tradition.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, he keeps doing that. Yeah. He's every year

he keeps doing it. He's really into it. It's beautiful. Very, very beautiful. And um and he used to live with Larry and Larry, you know, had a stroke and and um

and we both were there um in the hospital while hoping for Larry to recover.

What was that? Was it 2018?

I think so. I'm the worst with dates. So, if I told you a date, it would probably be wrong. That's okay.

Larry had I tell you I met Larry again.

I met at when I was helping to build the man. I mean helping to build the man. He was at Chris Campbell's house

and he was sitting by this cauldron and he was melting wax and I said, "What are you doing?" And I had no idea who he was other than, you know, here he was, this guy sitting there melting wax and um by this huge cauldron. And he goes, "Well, we stuff burlap, you know, in the man when we burn it. And so I sat down next to him and I started like, you know, melting these candles with him and soaking the burlap in the wax and um and I swear to God it just sparked a friendship that that lasted throughout his life his lifetime and had a huge impact on my life. Um

yeah, it was a I love that guy.

Yeah, let I was I was going to guess it's like you bet this guy burnt a melting wax by a cauldron and profusely smoking cigarettes. Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

That was Larry,

you know, and and I instantly just, you know, was charmed by his imagination and enthusiasm and

w and

Oh, yeah.

Um and so what happened was with this camel, you know, I um when I got the c when I brought the camel out of the desert, I you know, I had no idea, you know, I was having a lot of fun with it. But the magic for me truly happened in that moment is when I was erecting it um

when I was putting it together because it was in two pieces and I had like these tapestries that I found and you know um and it when I finally got it together, people from afar thought it was a real camel.

Oh, really? Wow. You did a good job.

Yeah. Yeah, it came out pretty good. I got to tell you,

I loved this camel. And the beauty of What that camel did is as I was putting it to together is that um one in the making of it I met Larry who who became such a dear friend to me and a really important person in my life like family and then um I also met Pepe and all the people from the opera because they would they would drive by every morning as I was putting the camel together and and sort of cheer me on and you know and um um as they were going to get mud. So they were off to the hot springs to get mud for their temple, their performance or you know the opera.

And so I met so many people. I probably met met Paradox at that time. I'm sure I did. And I met several friends that to this day are still very close friends of mine.

Um and Pepe became an absolute mentor after that. You know, when I didn't I when I continue to make art after that, I it was such a great experience. And then my new friend Larry thought I could do anything, you know. He thought I'm like, "No, I just build this." He would ask me to build these things for this and that. I'm like, "Larry, I don't know what I'm doing." He's like, "Oh, yes, you do. You're an artist." "Yes, you do." And he just continually, you know, he pushed me to different heights of and trying different things. And then I, you know, I would ask, "Okay, how the hell am I going to put this this together?" You know,

kind of that kind of is sort of like the Bernie man way, right? You know, it's like you see someone sort of like struggling to like tie two sticks together and then you know like you're an artist. It's like what I I am. Yeah. And congratulations, you're going to be starting to do this now.

It's almost like uh was it Tom Sawyer, you know, just kind of like getting people like we need people to help build this thing and you're guess what? You're it.

Definitely. Absolutely. There's such a beauty in that.

Yeah. But also something that's kind of come through in some of my conversations with with many people is it like Bernie man it's like I don't know it's it's almost like a space where it's like you you have it kind of gives you permission you know it's like the whole like um I mean radical inclusion yes like anyone can come but like just uh the radical like self-expression and it's just it's a place you know where you could just be like feel free go crazy you know you know just like well I'm just a poor science student it's just like well well guess what you too can be an artist it's like I can It's like, "Go ahead, try it out, you know, and then you just start putting like two and two things together and then people are just like immediately see the results, you know, and then and then they're starting to shanghai you on their project."

It's so true. I definitely fall into that category. I was I loved that. You know,

I mean, I'm not sure there's been many people who went to Britney who were just like failed artists, you know, just like, "Yeah, I tried the art thing and didn't go very well. I'm sure it's like the the success rate is probably pretty high, right?

Yeah, I think so. Definitely.

Yeah,

it's pretty amaz it's pretty magical. I still get like I still get to witness and experience some of that. Um, you know, I I love seeing people uh um younger people now that I'm old.

Um but I love seeing them um you know, take on projects and like I do their first honorarium or create their first thing or people that have helped on my projects and come volunteer that also have never used power tools being able to pass that on

um and the gift of that and then just watching some of these people just blossom in the arts the same way that I had you know

after that camel experience and so it's just a beautiful beautiful thing.

Oh yeah. So do do you mentor any or is just more informal kind of

me? Oh, well, yeah, I guess. Yeah. No, absolutely. Pretty informal. But I also I did I did a huge project for Burning Man that was um one day I had a phone call and it was this young girl, 16 years old from Las Vegas

and she was a Girl Scout. And I mind you, I've never been a Girl Scout. I was um

so I knew nothing about the Girl Scouts. I mean, I knew the organization, but I knew absolutely nothing. And she called and says, "Hi, I'm a Girl Scout from Las Vegas." You know, and I thought, "Okay, is this a cookie call? Is she going to sell me a bunch of cookies?"

They don't normally call me. I'm like, "Okay." Like, yeah.

Yeah.

Cookie.

Wow. Now, now they've got you working on the phone. Um anyways, she was 16 years old and I guess there is a um there's a like a final project. I can't remember what it's called now. It's something the golden something or another, but um At any event, it's sort of like a project, a final project you do when you're in the Girl Scouts.

And so she tells me that she, you know, wants to build um this life-siz mammoth and that she wants to build it out of recycled metals.

Yeah. All out of recycled metals. And the story behind it is she's grew up in Las Vegas. These and these four women used to go walk. She didn't know them at the time, but they became her mentors. um they used to go on these walks at night and in this area in Las Vegas where it's just sort of spreading its tendrils you know and growing out and more development more and more development and you know she's living in the spread these women um would go for a walk and they started finding mammal tusks and fossils and bones. Yeah. Yeah. And so they went to the developer. It was being developed at the time. At the time it was this sort of like you know this empty land and it was being used as sort of a dumping ground. And that's why the Girl Scout, her name is Taho Mac, and she's a lovely lady and I love her to death and I'm still friends with her today. Um, uh, they Yeah, it was a dumping ground for for trash, illegal thing. It was also a shooting range. Um, and a legal shooting ril shooting range

and um, and um, but this developer had bought this land and was starting to develop and These women went to the development, said, "Hey, we're finding all these fossils. It's like amazing. You know, you got to halt, halt, stop, stop. I mean, you got to check this out." And so they were like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." And they didn't listen to him. And so, um, they went back and they're like, "Seriously, like, you know, there's all these fossils. There's history here, you know, I mean, there's like mammoths, you know, bones here." And

um, and they sort of again brushed them off and were like, "Don't you have any else better to do. And they didn't realize that these women were pretty powerful women

in Las Vegas. And um they said, "Well, actually, no." They took it all the way to Washington DC and they saved the land and um shut down the developer and it's now a national state park. And to

Yeah, it's a really cool story. Um so this Girl Scout hears this story and they become her new heroes, you know, in her hometown. And she decides, okay, this is amazing. It's now a national state park. The land, you know, has been saved. And she decides at the head of the park, we need to have a giant mammoth that's going to be made out of all recycled metals found on the, you know, on on the land because it was a legal dumping ground, right? And and shooting range. And so, mind you, she's 16. She doesn't know how to weld. She's never built a sculpture. Um, but she has this grand vision, you know, and um and I'm listening to her and and the enthusiasm, the excitement and um and

yeah, that's the key ingredient that she has in spades, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I love Yeah. She had it, you know, and I remembered a younger self of a younger me, you know, when I wanted to build a camel, you know, and I was not sure what I was doing, you know, and the help and actually, you know, um the helping um teaching me how to use those powers tools, you know, and coming to coming by to help with the structural aspect of this little tiny sculpture,

which then evolved into other sculptures and then evolved into me wanting to make this, you know, grandiose, you know, at that time like 29 foot tree.

Wow.

Um uh I I just couldn't say no. They came to her, her mom, her brother. They came to San Francisco and they I taught them how to weld all of them. And they I ended up moving out there with Flash. Flash came too. Um moving into their house. She was now by the time I got there because they were fundraising and and raising money to for this project, you know. So by the time I got there, she was uh

in her last year of of high school. And um and yeah, it was crazy. It was a crazy thing. We went we moved there. Um we had a incredible place XL Steel that allowed us to use their shop. Um, and I also worked with this other artist who is still a very dear friend of mine, um, Louisville Rico. Um, he did the interior structure of this sculpture and actually a sculpture in and of itself. So, he did the whole, um, skeleton skeletal framework of the mammoth. It's really quite beautiful. And then what I helped with was the entire skinning of it, the outside perimeter of it. and the head

uh in do in doing it in recycled metals and and working along Tahoe and um and the whole community, those ladies, those ladies, those four ladies that saved that land,

two of them helped. They were like, you know, in their they were, you know, in their I late 60s and they were out there with grinders, you know, using the plasma cutter. I mean, it was pretty fantastic. It was a beautiful project to work on because it really brought in um this whole community in uh Las Vegas as well as I asked a lot of friends to come and I said, "Hey, this is massive. We're going to need help."

Um do you mind if I invite friends? So, it was a rolling door in their house, you know, of people and friends coming to help on this beautiful creature. And it's now the head of the National State Park Ice Ice Age Fossils. Yeah. In Las Vegas. And it was a a very beautiful experience one and the diversity of people working on it. I mean, we had Girl Scouts, I had Girl Scouts, we were out there collecting, you know, collecting um bullet um casings

and walking around on this land, you know, to try to collect stuff to put on it. Um and

how long did this take?

Yeah, it was Oh my god, I was there forever. It took like, you know, it first of all, it took from the moment I when I first met them, it took about a year, a little longer than a year, year and a half to get the project, you know, uh funded in a place for it to happen. But in that time frame, Tahoe came to visit and she came to visit and we would we welded we we made a small model of a a mammoth at a recycled materials. We collected materials on site. We collected materials offsite. Like you know there was a lot of leg work that went into it before it actually happened.

But then um and then while there I you know And mind you, I'm like, what am I doing, you know? I mean, I'm I'm I'm going to Las Vegas. I'm going to live with a Girl Scout. I mean, hello. But a friendship had truly developed, you know, and I was down from the count, you know, and um and I'm glad I was. I mean, it was a very magical experience. I love Lou, the other artists we work with. I love her whole family, you know.

Like burners. Have any of them been to Burner?

No. Oh, no. This is another story. Meanwhile, when we're building it, they're like, "We should take this to Burning Man." And this was the year that Larry died after he died. Um, and I had been asked to build a memorial for him and um, and so I knew that I had that commitment that I had to do that. But it we did end up taking this mammoth to Burning Man. They had never been to Burning Man. Um, we had another guy there, this guy Dev, wonderful man who showed up to help volunteer one day with the sculpture. He actually was um, a Vietnam vet. He was a um, he had been a sniper in his

previous lifetime. Yeah. And he had a lot of trauma behind it and he had, you know, and he was a beautiful man and he was working on dealing with all of this past trauma and he taught him how to weld. And one day I look over and he's standing there and he's got tears just streaming down his face

and I'm like, "Dev, Dev, what's wrong? What happened? What happened?" And he's got the bullet shells, right? And he's pounding them. And so we used them. We We used them around. We encased the tusks of the mammoth in these bullet casings and then also as the foot pads.

And he's sitting and he's he's creating and he goes, "I never in my lifetime thought that I would be using something like this to make art."

Wow.

And it was so beautiful. So so so beautiful. It was just a really beautiful powerful moment that I'll never ever forget. And um and seeing that transformation, that healing transformation that could happen.

Well, I I imagine something like like a bullet or a bullet casing like someone from his his background just

that there's probably like there was only one use for it and it was entirely negative, you know? So, here now years later just being like, "Oh, no, no, no." You know, like here's another use that's entirely different. I mean,

that's mind-blowing. Like, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Incredibly mind-blowing. It was phenomenal. It was um Yeah, it was beautiful. The power to take life, the power to like give life. I remember the days back in Burning Man when they had the shooting range out there and um and that was absolutely fun. And

did you ever take part in that?

I did. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

I was around like those years, but like never I don't I was never near it. Like I don't know. Also, I never I didn't have

Probably smart. I don't think anybody got hurt, but probably a smart idea. I mean, obviously I'm sure nobody there really knew, you know,

was a sharpshooter. Um, but they line up all these stuffed animals and

Yeah. That was also a different time back then. I remember like 96, 97, 98. Like you would just hear like like people would throw like like five gallon propane cylinders like into fires.

I mean, they were just you hear like these distance just like w you know like like what was that, you know, and people all these homemade explosives and homemade rockets and and fireworks and stuff and like Yeah.

So, is there like So, so for the the Vegas the the Mammoth Project, is there like a like for also for that that park, is there like a website? I mean, I guess I could look it up later, but

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can. Um

what's the name of the park?

I think so. Yeah. It's called the Monumental Mammoth and um and it's at the ice age fossil. park um national state park. Um it is to uh the the the women are called protector of tool springs. So there's several places that you can look up. Tahoe Matt, she has a website also. Lou has it on his website. Lou Valera Rico. Um it's on my website. It was a magical story and a magical time of all these people that you know came together to help this Girl Scout. And the cool thing about it is what what and Taho, what a phenomenal young lady, you know, now she's a young adult. Beautiful young adult. Yeah.

Um to have this dream, you know, and to inspire, you know, other Girl Scouts, you know, to um to build and, you know, use power tools. Mind you, we couldn't put a welder in a in a 12-year-old Girl Scouts um hands at the moment, but um that time frame, but but just the, you know, but just the legacy of that is so remarkable and amazing and um and it went to Burning Man, you know, and um and it brought this, like I say, this diverse group of people, you know, I mean, you have this now, I believe she was like 17 and a half teenager, you know, um

setting it up with Deb, you know, this this Vietnam vet and this wonderful, brilliant photographer, Roxy, who actually lives out near Gerlock nowadays. Um transgender, lovely wonderful, beautiful woman who I adore. Um, you know, these and these these very straight park rangers all at Burning Man together. Okay. You know, park r they're out there with their park ranger outfits on and they're talking about the park, you know, and they're handing out pat pamphlets, you know, and um they've never been to Burning Man straight as an arrow, you know, and there they are, you know.

Does Tahoe Mack like does she now go to Burning Man or

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she does. Yeah, she's g she's gone several years. You know, she went, you know, she went from being like like this amazing incredible experience of building this man with her house being overrun by people, which I I think she loved and at the same time like wow. Um that to going to college and that next year it was um co happened

and she moved away from home.

Yeah. So she went from this height of like this whole Burning Man going to Burning Man being like this whole Burning Man star She was very eloquent. She was she had a great way of speaking, very captivating and moving and intelligent and um and uh and so she she won a lot of hearts, you know, with her project and her vision and and to go from this this experience and then go off to college this, you know, um and co hit, you know, was a major shift, you know, from

Yeah.

from you know, and so but she's Yeah, she's got she goes she goes to and I believe she's actually making an art car this year.

An art car? Really? Wow.

Uhhuh. I think she's making a Nautilus art car. I'm not certain, but I believe I heard that somewhere

down the pipeline.

All right. Well, let's get back to you. So, you built this camel 94 and I take it you uh Yeah. You burned it.

Oh, I burned it. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I burned it. What? I mean it was not coming back to my living room. Let me tell you that.

So then on years after that it's like what? So what what else? So like when in 96 like you said you

now okay well like I said I met Larry. Larry thought I was an artist and I really thought I just made a camel. He's like oh no you can do this you can do that. You know and I definitely had the bug. I loved my camel so much and the experience of making it. So I took on whatever he thought I could do. Okay. I mean there were a lot of fundraisers local ones at the time then. So I made and it was this help theme, but I made all these crazy sort of props and wild things for um for the theme that year. And um I made these like wild torches for Pepe's opera. There was a whole procession at that point, you know, it was it was the art was, you know, um on a linear

uh art pathway, you know, it was straight down the the the artworks that were placed and then it went from that to a circle to a round circle where the installations were placed. This was in smaller back in the day when there weren't, you know, several, you know, I don't know how many hundreds of installations or art is placed nowadays. But um

but you can't even see where there's a

Oh, no. You can't even see them all. Every time I go, I'm like I get so sad. How did I miss that? That is amazing. So many

some sort of art cart or something, you know. And

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to be able to get around. You definitely do.

Yeah.

Um Yeah, it's hard to see them all.

It it it truly is. So, Helco like anyways and Larry, you know, he ended he lived up the street from me. So, our friendship just, you know, grew and grew and grew. Um and uh and so I started making all of these things. I made another camel, believe it or not. I made a there's a group uh called the Seaman. They were once part of

SRL.

Um politician. So I um they loved my camel too. He asked me to start making props so his machines and robots could eat them, you know, and blow them up and all that kind of thing. So I started making, you know, atomic bombs in my living room. I started making big rats and like strange things. And um I definitely caught the bug. So I had made this other this it was this whole kind of pyramid scheme of c that joke the camel from the camel cigarettes,

you know, and the idea was, you know, you smoke wine, you know, you can give you know, the more and more, you know, um there was a whole story line to it, but it was part of their Helco installation

and

Yeah.

And that also, you know, um it that also was burned and destroyed. And

so, were you still like in school for microbiology at this point?

No. No. I was No, no, no, no. I I I was done with the school and I was like I had no interest in science whatsoever at this point. I literally, you know, I'm grateful for for studying science, but I absolutely I mean, Bernie man definitely changed my life. I definitely um who knows what I could have been today. No, it um No, I definitely was smitten and um and I really did not want to work in a lab for the rest of my life.

Yeah.

And I um and um and I I I love science and I love everything about it. But I truly love creating and making and

Well, it's a good background to help with your art in the process of building.

Oh, it definitely is. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely. It definitely is. It comes in handy all the time and and

Yeah.

It also um shapes a lot of the art.

So, did you like So, you graduated, you get like a degree microbiology and you're just like, "Okay, now I'm an artist. Yeah, but I didn't really plan on becoming an artist. I just got I was like kind of got swept up in theite in the excitement, you know,

um at the time, you know, of Larry and we're going to make this and we're going to do this and we had a really great relationship where we would just bounce off ideas. He'd have his theme, you know, and so, you know, I loved watching like these storylines grow um

over the years.

So, you built your camel and then you kind of get sucked into like other people's projects like but at what point do you start being like you know what I need to like do some of my own projects?

Well, I'll tell you and what what happened was and so then you know actually I got like from Larry Larry you know hired me to be his his personal art assistant for like a year there or so you know and so I I um yeah so I just helped him with his like you know with the art out there. Um I had a card I was really proud of my card um Um, but I I realized, okay, now you know what? I think I want to make something, you know, and I and I helped. So, what it was is I helped like with him. I would meet these artists and they're working, you know, and and they would be working on these projects. Some of them, you know, Larry definitely would help, you know, just sort of plant a seed and they'd be off and running, you know,

and I so I volunteered on a lot of pe different people's projects and like I said, I I made a lot of different things throughout these years, but the first truly big project of my own was this um uh and I I helped on Michael Christian's project. I helped Pepe. I helped you know I worked with Cal a lot with Seaman at that time. Um

and I at I decided um that I wanted to build I wanted to do my own project, my own larger project, right? And I I um and that was the year it was 1999. So there's some years between there um uh where I helped other people. I would make some things on a smaller scale like these strange tentacles one year and then um and uh a lot of things that went that were sort of they they were kind of to facilitate other art projects, right?

And whether were kind of in that costume realm, but a lot of them were props. A lot of them were kind, I guess I would call them props or, you know, or are smaller art pieces that accentuated other art. Um,

I made these I made for Pepe. I made um these torches. They were um all sort of masks and faces and and they were in his procession in one of his operas. But then I I decided I wanted to make this um this tree. And the whole idea of the tree It's a bone tree, right? And and um

and

and and I became obsessed with this whole concept that year was the theme was the wheel of time. And so the installations were to travel and they were placed in a circle. They were to travel into the past,

the present, and into the future. And so Larry wanted me to make something that, you know, um that traveled right, you know, that had to do with the theme. He wanted me to make something um do with that theme and and he it he wanted me to make a DNA coil, which makes sense, right? Like a helix. Yeah, DNA. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And um but then I um I had this idea brewing.

I had helped like I I definitely got uh infected. I helped Michael Christian. You made a bone arch. You know, there were a lot of bones out there. I knew where to get, you know, where they were. Um, and I wanted to make this um, this tree out of bones. And I wanted it was sort of that cycle of life and death and that starkness of bones, you know, what they represent and turn it into this image of life and how out there on the playa there, you know, there doesn't seem to one existing thing, right? Even though there are, but there's no trees and, you know, and and the the animals are out, you know, there's ranches all around the black crop desert, you know, and that's where a lot of the bones were collected. Um, but so I wanted to make and I thought bones are a window into the past. It's, you know, they're what's left of us when we die, you know. Um, paleontologists use them, you know, like the the mammoth fossils, right? Those bones, you know, and they carry so much weight in history. And so so it was the first time when Larry asked me to build something, I went back to him and said, "No." And you could think with my science thing that I'd be all excited about the helix, you know, and one day I think I got to make one because DNA is fascinating. Um, but at that moment in time, I wanted to build this phone tree, right?

And so, you know, I went back and I'm like, no, I want to build this, you know, I want to do this, you know, and so um uh I um uh he anyways I was granted the um idea to make it, you know, and Um and so um at that point it was a leaping off point from being his assistant to becoming my own artist and trying to take on my own project and you know and um

was the bone tree like was it like on a like on wheels and it moved around?

It was on wheels. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it was used off. So

the other thing is is that the Michael Christian made this beautiful sculpture. I really miss it. And and

the archway that one like the archway he made but We also made this one, this nebulous entity. Nebulous entity. Wild looking.

Do you remember that one? It was wild. I loved it. It was incredible. And it and afterwards it stayed um on the ranch out there at Burning Man and it caught on fire

and it was, you know, he he wrapped it in um in cellophane and and or um shrink wrap and it was um fiberglass on certain parts of it

and it anyways it caught on fire out there and so it was really a tragic thing and it was really really cool sculpture. And um and so they had a a a a they had this carcass as you say this

metal armature kind of thing.

Metal armature. Yeah. And that's what Larry said, "Oh, you know what? You can revive that Michael Christian thing, you know, to make the DNA helix, right?" And I'm like, "Oh, you know, and and I thought great because the the bottom it was built. I'm not, you know, at this point this is my first sculpture, you know, so the structural part of it, the roots of it and you know was built but it was a lot of work to and in hardship it went it went back to the place where he built it um in San Francisco where I where I then created the bone tree and tried to give new life to his old sculpture

yeah I had that thing I had that base yeah brought to San Francisco

and I created it in the Bay View in fact I'm down the street from there right now um

Wow

and and

logistically I'm just like because I thought you would maybe would have built it out in the ranch or something because like well the arate would have made more sense to make it out there you know it truly would have but my but you know I had people here that I had made you know um a lot of friends and community and and people that um were willing to help me with this dream just like that

Girl Scouts dream you know I did not know how to weld I I learned how to weld on this tree you know I was in the dirt with these with this burnt up sculpture that my friend made that I actually helped build on, you know,

and um and I'm trying to now turn it into a tree. And Pepe came he came and in true Pepe fashion, he he came to help me and he, you know, I was working with a generator. The welder was on a generator. I'm outside in this lot and he shows me, you know, we cut a couple pieces of square tubing, you know,

and He he goes, "Here's how you make a branch." And he cuts few pieces, right? And he turns them at different angles, right? And he teaches me, shows me how to weld.

And I swear to God, within a half hour, he goes, "All right, you do it now. You got it." And he walks away, you know? And I sat there in the dirt with this metal and this generator in the wheel. I'm like, "What the f***?" And I, you know, I tried and I tried, you know, and I I continued to try and I continued to curse and I, you know, and then this beautiful lady uh Scotty Chapman came and she she gave me some more lessons and it's been that way throughout my art career because I never I didn't study art in school and I you know so I have no

art training whatsoever and

yeah because I was interviewed um Lady B a week or two ago and and one of the things we were talking about was just like uh Burning Man and like and the the the church community or I guess the the worldwide I don't know professional or whatever like official like art community you know because I think like in the beginning the art community kind of like turned up its nose it was like oh these are just like amateurs going into the desert whatever but now like so many years later you know it's like I think that it that's a much different story right I mean

it is yeah it truly is I know in San Francisco right now they're placing a lot of art from San Francisco there's some cont behind it because it's going through not the normal channels but but um but it's it definitely has changed you know um

like outsider art to more I don't know if you insider now but yeah

yeah yeah but it's definitely you know like um uh you know in San Francisco they started placing um art in Hayes Valley in this park and and generally most of it was coming from Burning Man because it was large scale and that was coming from the art commission and now you know there's um this group the big art loop and they are placing art in San Francisco and most of it is coming from from Burning Man because they're looking for large scale impact and so there's several sculptures now along the Embaradero I'm lucky enough to be one of them that mermaid is there which ironically it was never been to Bernie man um but it was built for a show in England

and um yeah I and it was built on site. I flew I flew out to England

was the we from dust kind of uh or

it was a radical horizons that's and um

and they so they they it was really cool. It was at this place estate in the middle of

and they placed a lot of art that was already built but then they had two participary builds. They wanted to kind of demonstrate and show and bring some of the Burning Man community and the echoes and and um participatory aspects of that there.

And the Duke and the Duchess lived there. I mean, we lived there. We lived at Chadzsworth, you know. We lived in like the like it used to be the old horse stables and now it was like, you know, um um kind of a little cafe, you know, but it was beautiful stone and we're um

Wow.

and and we were upstairs like we slept next to the cook and the Duke Duchess were in the main house. Um,

uh, it was wild. Yeah, it was very wild. And and I, so I went there and I wanted they asked me to build it because I I I um, if I would build something on site, which is always a scary thing to do. It really challenges you. You have to you're in a new studio, not something that you're familiar with, you know. They are also I couldn't bring tools because the whole um,

uh, electricity is different, you know. So they ordered all these things. and travel with all that stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they had a shop. They had a shop. I took over their shop. It was the landscaping team and they um uh were also just like, you know, blown away with by what I was They loved me.

Are you like by yourself or do you have like anyone helping you?

No, no, no, no. I said I brought four friends. I brought four people flash game with me. I brought three. I brought Metal Heather who runs the metal department in um for Burning Man.

Couldn't have done it without her. Um, and I brought uh I guess wait a minute, there were four of us and this woman Kathy Richard Richardson. Um, so we were there and I also, you know, which I have a a tendency to do where I don't travel alone. I told my friends, hey, guess what? I'm going to England. I'm going to make this mermaid. Um, and so I I had friends come until uh they have a lot of rules in in in Britain, but we had a lot of people that came through the Burning Man community to help work on the

on the mermaid while we were there. It was a very fast build. It was six weeks. We had six weeks to do it.

What do you think that like like say, you know, when you were an undergraduate in microbiology and you're in the lab and you're you're plating things on plates of agar, you know, like and all of a sudden this like dusty older woman like from the future comes by and it's just like drop that aar plate. Like you someday you're going to be not is like it's it's an internationally known artist just be like what this crazy person.

Yeah. I mean honestly definitely a complete switch like you know you couldn't get any different and um I would have never foresaw that this is my life I'm living now you know.

Yeah.

Um

yeah

and um

so um where did you grow up? You said you grew up in Venice Beach. Yeah,

Venice Beach. Yeah, Venice Beach, California. I grew up by the water. You know, I grew up in the water. You know, my parents used to have to um yell and scream at dinner time, "Hey, get out of the water. It's dinner." kind of thing.

My parents had a bell.

Um a bell.

Yeah. Cuz I would cuz I would travel far, you know, like we don't know where they are. Just ring the bell and like they'll come like Yeah.

Oh, I feel you know, poor kids these days, especially the ones in the city, you know, they don't get to run wild. Oh, like we used to.

Yeah. Like you turn off the router and they're like, "What the hell? The internet went down." You know?

I know. I know. I know. Be mortified in my studio today.

Yeah. So, yeah. So, um

and then I moved to San Francisco and um Yeah. And then, um to study science, see where that led. So, sometimes I call myself the mad scientist. Um

was that like your early vision when you were like a teen or you going to college. Did you?

No, actually, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all. Honestly, I'll tell you what happened and how that that happened and um but what how it happened is that um No, not whatsoever at all. I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life and um and I um had a few kind of difficult years in my early life um in my

and uh right, you know, between I guess sort of in high school to like 21 or so I had some difficult period and I didn't go immediately to college and I um and then I you know but was able to get through this time in my life and I um went to school and I decided to go back to school and I took a you got to take a science course you know a biology course I believe that's a requirement um because I don't know if I would have signed up for it ever. I think it's one of the basics. You take a literature, you know, a biology.

Yeah. The core courses, whatever.

Yeah. Those, you know, there's these core courses, right? You know, so I take this biology class and I tell you something, it just

it opened my eyes. I had the same enthusiasm that I had for Burning Man in Art. I just couldn't believe it. Like the whole magic of science and the cellular makeup

and the beauty of it. it and you know and photosynthesis and all this stuff I knew nothing about and because I had some of the hard times in my life prior to that and difficulties to me the magic of life and the beauty of it I it it woke up something inside of me that you know that wasn't there and I just yearned for more knowledge and it and deeper and getting into the cellular aspect of it and into the microbiology um aspect of it too diseases where they come from where do they start, you know, how do you cure them, you know, and that sort of led me down that pathway. Um,

and which was really really beautiful. And it and I I was like a total nerd like I changed like into this total sort of like surf chick to nerdy like science person, you know, and I loved it. I loved it. But and it was so wonderful and it was so beautiful to me and and truly still is and but there's still you know there's a lot that you know in that career of science is is pretty amazing and and magical but um

that's a great background. Yeah.

Yeah, it is a great background. I did not see myself working in a lab and I like I said I wanted to work for CDC but I did not want it really that it's not a glamorous job whatsoever. I thought I'd be a detective you know I'd get to hunt down all the causes of major you know diseases and then I get to be a hero and I would save the world you know. But no, that generally does not happen. You know, it happens in labs for years and years and years and years and years and it's not. So I had a whole fantasy life. Okay. So I had an active imaged pistol and

you know what my science career it was definitely the mad scientist realm. You know it was not um it had nothing based in reality and my passion for it too was really not based in what what are you you know really going to do with this? And so I think when you know as it started looking like okay you know I it just the art was truly another thing to learn another kind of avenue to explore and experience and and manifest and create. And so I think that it it there was an kind of this unlikely you know divergence into art. And I'm lucky that I went to Burning Man because like I said I did not study art. I did not you know I I um There's some holes in my education and my, you know, lack of things, but then there's also I'm lucky I I um had, you know, I had personal mentors through Bernie man. I was able to learn skills I never would have or I would have, you know, but at a cost or, you know, years in school or

Oh, yeah. Um

I'll be right with you, Frankie. Um I got really lucky um uh you know, to be able to help on all these projects. and to learn all these skills and then to have this um this very welcoming community and and area where you can, you know, where it's encouraged to explore, you know, and where you can create these amazing things and things on a large scale. And no, I never thought I would have a sculpture built in England and it comes back and it's on the Embaradero. It's magic to me, you know, or one in front of Ice Age fossils like National State Park. Um it's very magical. and and beautiful and I feel very grateful to Burning Man and the community and the people I've met, their family, and to Larry. I love Larry.

Um and yeah,

it's just been amazing.

So, okay, I guess we'll get to our last question is um so because I got a guy outside my my studio right now. His name is Frankie. He's in a wheelchair. I'm helping him.

Okay. Yeah. Um

so just like the the impact What's the

Yeah. Well, just the impact or influence of Bernie man on your life.

Yeah. Well, it's truly impacted my life. Obviously, I was studying science and now I um you know, I'm making art. It it allowed me the freedom to do so and I I definitely ran down that rabbit hole. Um so, it's influenced my life vastly. I love community art, I have to say. So, it's also part of my practice, too. I try to do one or two murals,

community murals. mosaic murals a year

or every other year. Um, and I love doing them because and because mosaics is a really fun um medium for people that have no art experience and and you know kids can do it, older people can do anybody could do it. Anybody can smash a hammer or break you know I mean there's a fine tuning really incredible art to mosaics if you you know along that route but yet I like to do them at schools, hospitals um you know just um uh community involvement and engagement and it's fun for me. I love kids. I I still do. They get me out of my head.

Um so I really enjoy their silliness and their creativity and I and um and so I enjoy working with kids at least once a year or every other year, you know, to do one of these murals to create something, you know. Yeah.

Um

they have so much magic in it and it's since I don't have any children, my own fun for me to, you know,

have them for a month and then, you know, but I but I definitely um yeah, so so I think that that's definitely something that that um came from Burning Man is sort of that collective community feel and working with others. Um

so what keeps you coming back? I mean I mean have you been pretty much consistently except for the co years like gone every year or

No, no, no, no. I I I actually No. No, actually there was a period there where I I took some years off, you know, like yourself. But kind of in intermittently, I would go, you know, but I wouldn't go for like three years and I'd go, you know, and I'll tell you what got me back is Larry. What got me back,

you know, he's like, "Wait a minute, Dana, what are you doing?" You know, why are you know, and he would kind of pull me into one of his things, you know? So, I came back and made like, you know, and then I'd be off and running, you know, with my own idea that I wanted to make. next year. So, he definitely, you know, he would lure me back in, you know, he had a great fishing line, you know, and I was Yeah. And good bait, I'll tell you that. But I I um Yeah, he lured me back in and yeah, I've gone pretty consistently now for several years, but I do take a year off or, you know, or two.

I think that's healthy. Yeah. I mean,

it is healthy. It's good, you know, and some of these big projects, man, they take a lot out of you, you know.

Oh, yeah. They give you so much but they take a lot out. So, but I do think it's healthy. I think it's it's it is you know and then you can be all nostalgic and miss the magic and go back and you know

or you know it's just or do other things.

Yeah. I don't know. There's just um I don't know if it's quite a plus but like uh something a friend told me many years ago and I think they was talking about like psychedelics you know but he was saying like uh repeated revelation ceases to satisfy. you know, like so like if you just go like this is my 40th year straight and I'm going year after year after year. Like after a while it just becomes like I don't know if it's like routine or just not special anymore, but it's kind of nice to just like take a year off, go travel or do something different or spend some time with friends and family and then then come back and like new ideas and refreshed, you know.

Yeah.

So there any uh new ideas you're working on or

um right now I am Oh, you know I'm not doing a project for Burning Man this year, but I'm kind of I wish I was honestly. I mean, I'm doing a small light thing, but um but uh I didn't um I was super busy um during their whole kind of um honorarium process of applications. I I didn't have time to even think about it. But um but yeah, I have some things in, you know, some some some projects in the works. I have a mural coming up and I have um a couple other um exciting prospects more city oriented and that hopefully come to fruition that are in the all the discussion phase right now. So so hopefully they materialize and I think they will. So there's some magic that that hopefully um is on its way and and I have a few um um I have a a few small lovely commissions right now that are allowing me to survive and are really fun to work on. So I feel very blessed and lucky.

Do you have any sultans that want to fly you to Dubai to build anything or

No, but listen. But you're open to the possibility.

I will get on that plane. I am open to that pos. I am open open. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. Not that glamorous. I wish you know, but but it's gonna happen, right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, we're saying that, you know, just the whole like art at Bernie man where it was like you know 30 40 years ago it was like oh that's just a bunch of amateurs like now I mean it's it's it's a scene right I mean I've heard that there's people that

it truly is

yeah I mean

art this art some it's landing in Europe it's landing in South Africa it's just it's incredible yeah

okay I do have to go I got my friend here waiting for me help him

okay well thank you so much for the interview

and Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And we'll

we'll talk soon. All right.

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