EP 75 Burner Nurse

Episode 75 with Burner Nurse is out now! Meet Burner Nurse, who discusses her role as a volunteer for the Emergency Services Department (ESD) at the Burning Man festival. The conversation explores the unique medical challenges of the desert, ranging from severe dehydration and environmental ailments like "playa lung" to bizarre injuries caused by amateur engineering. Jen highlights the critical importance of radical self-reliance, urging participants to prepare meticulously with their own medications and supplies rather than relying on the festival’s limited resources. Beyond the logistical advice, her story emphasizes the community-driven spirit and the non-judgmental, professional care provided by volunteers who return year after year to support the event’s survival. One of her main goals is to educate listeners on safety and preparation while celebrating the profound personal impact of the festival's culture on its attendees.

@burnernurse

https://esd.burningman.org/

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Transcript

Before we start, I would like to ask your help to do two things. First, tell a friend or two who you think might like the show. And second, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcast and Spotify. The more reviews the show gets, the more likely it will even appear in search results. Thank you. And now on to the show. 

Just a quick program note. Jen, the burner nurse does not work for the Burning Man organization. All opinions expressed are her own and do not represent the views of the organization. 

They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, there's a lot of play. Party party drama drama drama b**** b**** b****. Year after year they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact of Burning Man up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man.

Hello and welcome to the shadow of the Man show. I'm your host Andy, a TV doctor. No, that Andy. 

Today our guest is burner nurse. Welcome.

Oh, good morning.

Hey, good morning. Yeah. So, how so when did you first hear about Burning Man and how did you hear about Burning Man? Like, what kind of got you into it?

Uh, well, I mean, how I first heard about Bernie Oh my gosh. Well, I'm from NorCal, so everybody's been talking about Burning Man for a long time. Yeah. But Um I I was a late bloomer. I didn't come until later in life. Uh just because of the way

what you know the way things were my life was at the time. Uh so but yeah, I've been hearing about it for a long time. Um but it was always it was always the more I guess negative aspects of it. It was it wasn't the positive direct from the burn. her mouth type of uh information. It was always about this, you know, this as they say this drug induced

media influence kind of thing, you know.

Yeah. Um but uh once I actually really got to know some burners, uh then I realized that this was something that I I really wanted to try out because I I love this type of community aspect, the feel. Uh once Once I, you know, had friends who go out there and the different ways that they volunteer and give back and the art and the music, I I just knew I needed to experience it for the for myself and not listen to everybody else.

Well, also, you're a medical professional. I'm sure you're you're working. And I think I don't know if you look back through the census and stuff like over all the years, I think it like the majority of people in in any particular year is kind of like in their 20s and 30s. I mean, I think it's been trending a little older as years have gone by, you know, but I don't know, it's kind of a standard trope for for many decades. I think a lot of people go to Bernie band, they're like, "Oh, they're in their 20s, you know, and they're having a good time, you know, and and I know for for me, I was in my 20s, but you like I was working professionally and it's like I mean, at first it was like you can only go just for like a long weekend and then even getting like a week off, you know, it would be like, "Oh, that's kind of hard." And and then now, you know, I hear all these people like, "Oh, Yeah, I go up for like two weeks or I go up for a couple of months and I'm like

like how do you do that? Do you have a do you not have a job? You a lot I guess a lot of people don't, you know, or they're kind of itinerant kind of like like like workers or things, you know.

Yeah. Or they're, you know, self-employed, something where they can actually take the time off. I have to put in uh a year in advance to be able to take the time off and, you know, I give myself a cushion on either side.

Is it competitive where work or there other people like wait no I'm going to Burning Man like

oh yeah nurses you have to so you have to you know you have to have a certain amount of nurses on staff each day and so you can only have two off at a time and or a day I should say a day and so yeah by putting by putting that in I definitely have to secure my spot otherwise

I won't be able to go

and there's like seniority rules

no it isn't it's more of a first come first serve type of deal Seniority has to do with the holidays.

What? That's not an official holiday.

I was going to say this is my holiday.

This is Northern California.

Yeah, I'll work Christmas. It's all good. Let me out for Burning Man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So, what was your first year?

My first year, was it 2017, 2018? Yeah. No, that's what I'm saying. I got started late. I got started late. Um, but I'm the type of person who really throws myself into everything kind of like you where I'd go around and and not uh officially interviewing people but I wanted to know everything there was to know I I am a over researcher I guess and then also working medical uh you definitely get to see a different side of

of Burning Man there.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll get into all that. Um did you like when you first went did you just go D right into that or were you just kind of like well I'm going to go with some How did you go like I mean immediately volunteer or like you just take

I did yeah I um uh so I had uh so I was working at a hospital in downtown LA and one of the uh fourth year medical students there she would do work Bernie man as uh an EMT. So she was working as an EMT while she was still in medical school and now of course she's an ER attending and and she has come back out to Bernie man to work as a doctor at Bernie man which is amazing. Um so it was her influence to say hey why don't you come out and do this I think you'd really love because I worked in TV and film and I've done other events as a medical person being working there and I've always enjoyed it because I like I like socializing and talking to people and and uh you know it's it's it's a really good experience and um so she said I think that you would really like being out there and you just have to forget what everything else that you've ever heard. And so I went with her and had the best time. It was very quick burn. My first burn was a very quick burn because I feel like all I just did a lot of working and I didn't

I think it was only for like five days and I worked three of those. So yeah. So um so I you know I just felt in love with the medical side of it, the ESD, and and I I was like, "Okay, from now on, if I'm coming back here, this is exactly what I want to do."

Mhm. Well, I think there's like different kinds of people who go into healthcare and and medicine. Um, like you definitely I it's definitely it's like it's one of those careers where it's like you actually like interacting with people, you know? I mean, I think there's some people in medicine who don't like interacting with people and they're kind of more like the the back end, you know. You know, like like I work in a pathology department, so we're just like, "Yeah,

we don't like the live people." It's like we're like the dead bits of them, you know?

People come and like, "I have a a complaint or a question or a problem." We're like, "Uh,

talk to somebody else." Yeah.

Yeah.

You know,

but I think pathology is so cool because you're actually like solving a puzzle, you know? You're you get to you get to look at everything in this on the slides and and you're it's amazing.

I I think like one of the main things about healthcare is like like you're you're helping people, you know, because another thing like I always I'm always so amazed by like emergency departments or like like emergency nurses, doctors, paramedics, and I'm always like that is such a rough job, you know, cuz like every single person you're seeing is like having like the worst day of their life, you know, and I'm just like wow. Cuz I know the emergency department like they're always like rotating the people like kind of coming and going and and but then like the other thing half of it I talked to people there. They were like, "Yeah, everyone's like having basically the worst day of their life, but

you get to help make it better."

And I was like, "Oh, yeah." I was like, "Okay,

that that makes sense. That must keep you coming back."

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I have a trauma background. The hospital I'm working at right now is not trauma, but everything else that I've done in my career, and I started out as an EMT, so it has been trauma related. And you're right, it is their worst day.

It is their worst day and we're working fast and uh trying to do everything that we can to save this person. And um you know it's very

when we can um I'm trying to figure out how to say it. Um because I want to say it without it sound. No, it's sort of like you know it's so rewarding that when we actually can but that's

see what I mean? If it could like just cut that cuz I I can't I can't figure out how to respond to that.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean it is rewarding. I mean an endorphin rush or whatever is like when you get to help somebody, you know, it's like of of being like an assistance just I mean I think that's that's pretty normal.

I think that experience

absolutely being able to help somebody and working together as a team because it isn't a solo sport. It's a team sport. And that's also something you see out at Bernie man. You see a lot of uh community and you know in the hospital setting I rely so much on my teammates because I can't do everything the doctor can't do everything by themselves you know we are all working together it's very uh synchronous syn the synchronicity of it um and I've seen that happen with the teams as well at ESD like we we have had some years where we have just been slammed and I you don't have people out there that slackers. Uh you don't they they actually will who is next? I'm next. I will take the next patient. I will do this one. I will take this. Drop this patient off. I'm coming back. I'm doing the next one. And they just it's it's wonderful. Um and it is um doctors, nurses, PAs, everyone working together.

Well, also going back to another thing you said, you were like, "Oh, my hospital's not like a a trauma hospital, but like pretty much wouldn't like any hospital other than just like a little walk-in clinic, you know, for people like you're like, "Oh, I have influenza, whatever." Like, "Hey, yeah, yeah, take some pills." You know, it's like pretty much any emergency department like you're dealing with some degree of trauma. And then if you think about it's like, "Well, we have this pop-up medical facility and it's it's in the middle of the desert." And it's like, "Oh, you mustn't really have very many patients."

But I'm sure it's like Burning Man. It's like probably some of the most interesting cases you come across you're just like I I I wouldn't see this like in LA right like

oh I think I think too because you have so many patients coming from uh or part participants patients they're coming from all over the world so um you know sometimes they forget their medication they forget you know oh yeah there are things that they that people forget and

you know uh lose their bag or something

lose their bag you know, just just things things happen along the way when you travel. We've all traveled. Um, and you you know, yeah, and they do come in. We have some people who come in who are

incredibly healthy and some that have some sort of ailment or but it was their lifelong dream to come out to Burning Man. And I still think it's wonderful that they're doing that. They just need to make sure that you have uh everything that you need for the week. So, say that you're diabetic that you show up without your insulin if that's what you're actually taking in the default world. So,

yeah, it has to be refrigerated and stuff, right? Like,

right. Even to like if you have high blood pressure and you're on a cardiac medication, you need to make sure that you come in with that cardiac medication because not necessarily that we'll have it

uh stocked in our little pharmacy.

Wow.

So, yeah. So, then they have to leave and go off Playa and and uh you know, nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to leave and come back. stay get in that line again because you don't have your medication or whatever it is that you actually need.

Yeah. Is it true like um I don't know. I just heard this I don't know if it's a myth but but what do they call it? It was like three bags to Reno like like if you're de dehydrated and you go in they give you like an IV drip and then they're like well if you're the you know the dehydration doesn't resolve in three bags that means you got to go to Reno. Uh, it would depend on what else is happening with the patient. I mean, is are is there a reason? They're not just going to send someone to Reno. They're not going to transport a well patient.

Let me say that. If you are a walkie-talkie well patient, you are not going to be transported off the Playa. If you are in some sort of acute distress or some issue that that Rampart cannot take care of, then they will have to transport you for uh better medical care or more intensive medical care. off the Playa.

Do they have just just individual ambulances or do they have like those like bus ambulances? They're like, "Oh, we could take like 12 people at a time." Like,

no. No, but there is air. There's uh you can be airlifted out. You can go on the rig. Um and that is all contracted through whoever is staffing Rampart.

Like ambulances leaving Black Rockck City going to Reno is probably not that common like in any particular day. I mean, it's not like Oh, yeah. We got like four going out every hour, you know.

No, no, because Rampart is really really well staffed. Those are the paid medical people and they are they have the background in emergency medicine or whatever it is like there's actual paid pharmacists on staff. There are uh

people X-ray techs who can run there is an X-ray machine in there.

You guys have imaging out there?

Yes. Yes. Yes, we do.

How does it like Oh, I got a couple of ultrasound machines. Whatever. or you know.

Yeah, they know they have that too.

Yeah, I mean that's easy. Those are like portable little things, you know, but

but they have like X-ray machines. Well,

yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, probably not doing like CAT scan or MRI or anything. I don't know. Like,

can you imagine the MRI? Everybody has to be clear. Remove all your metal. Yeah. Do you have any piercings? You That's not going to happen.

You would have to have like a perimeter fence around it. All these signs like no metallic object. objects past this point and then you get like

they couldn't even have the perimeter fence.

Yeah. Even the idiot partner is like let me try this out you know it's like the while all the piercings getting ripped out of their skin like

so okay the other thing was like if you are transported to Reno right like say that you know you you wander out in the playa and you know you you're done whatever and like and you collapse and you passed out and somebody finds you and then like you you're transported to Reno, but like you have nothing. Like you have no ID, you have no credit card, you you don't have your ticket. Like like how do you I always wondered like how do you get back to Burning Man?

Uh that part I don't know. I mean I just hope that the patient's okay and stable and um we did have a patient last year who was transported off and the only reason I know about this patient is because the the friend group came in

uh to station six and and they were very

um irate that their friend was transported off the playa and they were insistent that we needed to go pick them back up and bring them back

the taxi service.

It was it was it was very I I just was blown away by that because I um I I don't know where they thought that that was is appropriate of well first the reason the reason I would say that is first they were yelling at my 20- nothing yearear-old greeter you know why are you don't yell at my greeter so I went over there to talk to them and explain to them the options that they had they could go this was this was a thing that got me I even made a video about this you can go get them no they didn't want to do that okay you can try to organize the burner bus to bring them back if they're stable which if they've been released from a hospital they they might be Um they're like, "Okay, maybe." Well, get into the Facebook groups and see if you can or you can organize a ride with someone else because burners are willing. If they have an open seat, you don't have any baggage, they'll give you that seat. You'd probably just have to pay for some gas and chip in for some gas and you can have some good conversation, meet a new friend along the way.

Yeah. But that effort Yeah. I just I was I was not

I was They're upset that you're not like going to get their friend and at the same time they're unwilling to really do much of anything about it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. That woman, she pointed her finger in my face and was like, "You took our friend off. You need to go get them." I was like, I had to take a breath. I was like, "Wait a minute. We're not going to do that today." So,

well, it's not like you like shipped them off to like Guantanamo or something. You're just like, "I didn't like the look of their jib." You know?

Well, that's that's what I'm saying. There was something wrong with your friend that they needed to be transported off the pla. There was something that was happening. had to be serious medically, right? Yeah,

absolutely. There had to be something happening medically to your friend that they were not allowed or that they could not take care of it at Rampart that they needed more acute medical care. I don't know what it is. I have no idea who this patient was who, you know, I knew nothing about them until this person came up and started yelling at us. So, and and they were with a group of probably like five or six people. Why? Why are you creating this? First of all, just come in and ask. Don't come Yeah, that It was just very inappropriate

that they have like protest signs but like bring Karen back. Bring Karen back.

No, it just felt like it was, you know, it was just like, you know, people react. You never know how someone's going to react in a stressful situation. And and you know, the uh Were you there last year? Were you

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was there last year.

Yeah. Okay. All right. So, you know what it was like with the weather. I mean, we didn't actually weren't actually able to get out and enjoy the ply until like Wednesday evening.

Yeah. Up to that point. So I think

but then at that point it was like magic. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, it was beautiful. It was so beautiful out. Um but people people react you know that that change in weather uh and and the ups and downs it really had it affected people's mental health and so um

I I saw a lot more of those cases last year.

Ah all right. Yeah. But because being transported to Reno I mean I imagine like rampart is is it sounds like it's fairly advanced. I mean It sounds like you'd be able to take care of

just about anything, you know, so being transported must be like, "Oh, this must be really serious, you know, or you need like a a bit more facilities than we can provide here, right?" Like

that's exactly what it is. So there's something there is some sort of medical issue with the patient and that's the reason why they had to be transported off. They're not going to Rampart will not transport a patient

if they could if they are stable, walkietalkie, healthy, ready to go. Uh, we have more treat and releases than they do transports out.

Um,

I just don't understand how someone wouldn't understand that. We were just like, "Yeah, I didn't like this person, so I transported them to Reena because they were being an a******." Like, no, that's not how it works, you know.

And the nice thing is that the the other thing that Rampart will do is if you were a patient of theirs, right? So, you had to come through, be a patient, be seen, say that they said you need XY medication that we don't have here or you need you didn't bring your medication with you and you have to go to Reno. What they will do is give you one of those passes so that you can bypass the big line.

So, it's it's it's wonderful. Uh it's it's yeah, it's it's really really nice. You can't just go in there for anybody who's going to hear this. You can't just go in there and say, "Hey, I need to run out and get more, I don't know, popsicles or something and I need a path." That's not going to work. It has to be an absolute there's a reason why and they know the reason why. Maybe they had to call your um uh prescription in

to the pharmacy out in Reno. Maybe that's the reason why and then you have to go pick it up. So, and they they will give you that pass for that reason.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, it would be pretty stupid of someone to just be like, you know, I have this great idea. I can get in and out. I'm just going to leave behind my critical medication. Like, I'm going to get really sick. Don't don't Yeah, don't worry about that. You know, But, you know, I want to be able to get in and out.

Yeah.

Like, really? Toy with your healthare?

You have people who say that, too. They're like, "Oh, I drank too much last night. I'll just go over to uh medical and get an IV." And that it's not the way that works. You have to It follows We follow a strict protocol with that. And so, if the patient doesn't meet that protocol, then you're not going to get an IV.

I don't know. I'm starting to see a pattern here. It's like you guys are like leaving money on the table, you know? It's like you could have like these optional like PL hands for burners where it's like, hey, you know, it's like for an extra like $50 on your ticket, you can get like, you know, the the the the morning after IV thing or, you know, like or for like a $100, it's like, you know, you'll have our like transportation back from Reno insurance plan.

Oh, Lord. I'll let you bring that up to the or

they're like, "No, no, we believe in personal responsibility that we don't care about making more money. Yeah.

Yeah. So, another thing for all the years I've been going to Burning Man, it just I just get this sense that as soon as people get off the black top and go on the gravel and like you come through the gates, something happens where it's just like the top of their head comes off and they take their brain out and they put it on the side to be like, I'm getting that later. And it just seems like just across the spectrum because I'm just like Why would you do that? He's like, huh? What? I'm at Bernie man. You know, it's like you just must encounter this all the time, which is like, what were you thinking? And it's like, oh yeah, I left my brain at the gate. Yeah.

I think that uh well, I mean, we do joke about safety third, right? Safety third is a big joke.

But I I think that there is something um about Bernie man itself. It's, you know, it's a very magical, wonderful place that can be very overwhelming to some and you know most of us are you were talking about the um the age groups now right so now it's skewing older and there is something I mean I hit the playa and all of a sudden I feel like I can do everything my brain goes oh you're in your 20s again and my body goes no you're not

maybe it's a time of day dependent like you when you wake up in the morning and you're like I guess about that yoga anymore. Like,

yeah. So, I'm not me personally, I am not ready to start climbing things the way I used to. Um uh I Oh my god. 2018 burn. I climbed to the top of the pros Nest in the uh the Carbob.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Sliced there. I heard about Oh, you did it? Oh god. Yeah. I sliced my hand open. Ended up at medical. Got a tetanis shot.

So, uh yeah, I I to not do that sort of thing anymore. So in that respect I can see it and I I mean I was you know I'm sober so it's uh you know climbing that without any any influence. Um I think uh well yeah

well also it's interesting you bring up the sobriety like that cuz I know just at least in my personal experience of like going to to Bernie man like I I definitely had a transit with me and my brother who like our co-conspirators and everything we've done like and Um, we for the longest time ran a a theme camper called the the cult of distraction. And so we had the this bar and it was this beautiful bar and and

you know we would just get like drunk like every day. It would be like all night and then and then like as the years went by it's like you know he kind of discovered he was an alcoholic and we were like oh

yeah we can't do that anymore you know. So we kind of had to reinvent ourselves as like an alcohol-free cuz we were like we really loved like the interaction and everything. It's like it's like, you know, we can't have the same thing but just without the alcohol. And then and then getting a good night's sleep. That was been like my my latest innovation the past couple of years. Like I actually took 13 years off of going to Burning Man like and I came back in 24 and yeah, I just remember it being like I can go to bed at a reasonable time like maybe like 11 or 12 or something, you know, and then get a good night's sleep and then wake up in the morning and and feel absolutely incredible. People like, "Wow, what are you taking? It's like it's this new great drug. It's called going to sleep at night. And they're all just like how does that work? And I'm just like, well, like like don't don't get too f***** up and then get some sleep and have a good place to sleep, you know? And they're like,

I got to try that. But but definitely as I've noticed people kind of skewing older or like older returning burners kind of like realizing this, it's like, oh, it's like I don't have to like get as high or drunk and it's like, oh, and I can get rest and like and I wake up in the morning. It's like it's it's like a whole new world.

Sure. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Um Okay.

Sleep is definitely a priority out there.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I also notice that too being older that um I also, you know, I have my friends out there and there will be at any time where we'll just look at each other and one will be like, "You know what? I'm going to leave." And they're like, "Cool, how about it?" You know, yeah, maybe uh you know, maybe I want to ride around the playa by myself in deep play. Maybe I want to go back and take a nap. Maybe and and that I think that that would be a really important thing for people going out there is to make sure that you have a really solid friend group and people that understand that you don't have to be with them 247.

And you know, um I think that you'll get over the FOMO of of you know, missing out is okay sometimes because sometimes maybe your solo journey took you onto something else that was even better and it was something that you needed something for you

or maybe that that's maybe some people misunderstand or like but yeah like this is it going to black recre city is like it's your adventure I mean

maybe you see stuff on Instagram or YouTube or you know like you're seeing like oh you know this is what people wear this is what people do this is how you do it and it's just like well no those are examples of things that other people have done you know, but it's like you can do things however

you would like, you know, and also like what you're saying like I had friends, it's like, you know, be like the night time after dinner, everyone's getting ready like, "Oh, we're getting ready. We're going to go out and like, oh, okay." You know, and then they would start taking drugs or whatever. And I would just be like, "Oh,

you go ahead." You know, it's like it's okay to be like to say no, you know, and just be like, you know, you can even hang out with them. It's like, "Well, you go have your fun. I'm going to do my thing."

You know? Yeah. All right. Uh, well, I did have, let's see, a couple of like weird medical things. Okay. I had this like one friend one year. He went to Rampart. He was like,

"I got this burn under my arm, like in my armpit." And they were like,

"Burn in your armpit." And he's like, "Yeah, yeah." And then they're looking at him and they're like, "That's frostbite?"

And they're like, "How did you get how'd you get frostbite in your underarm in the desert?" And he's like, Well, they're like, "Oh, yeah, that's right. I do have this these bag pipes that I kind of rigged that's like flaming bag pipes, and the hose, the tube goes under my arm, and they're like, "Ah, okay."

Burning Man. That is a Burning Man injury. That is That is the quintessential Burning Man injury right there.

Yeah, because I mean, you wouldn't see that like, you know, downtown LA or or wherever, you know, be I mean, you must see some like really just odd things. You're just like, "How the hell did this happen?"

We Yeah, I don't I don't I I I mean, I can't say too much without, you know, I wouldn't would never reveal anything about certain patients, but uh and then there are so many random things that you're just like,

"What in the world?" But, you know, everybody we don't I I also, you know, because of working trauma and all the things that I've ever seen and you just kind of take it and then you move on to the next one. It isn't we don't we don't usually dwell on anything. Um but that's that's a good one. I I'm sure he actually if the if the patient is someone like your friend and they're actually laughing about it until still telling that story, then that's you know that's totally different than uh

I think the gist of it was was just like haha like Rampart's never seen this type of injury before.

Oh yeah. But then again You never know.

Yeah.

You never know.

Yeah. And I'm also just amazed like with the high winds like this year like you know the the was it Saturday or something like like a lot of camps were destroyed and just I mean that was actually right before I got there but um and just like the high winds and just seeing these videos and I'm like I'm just amazed at like well a couple of things are amazing but like one it's like no one was like just got like impaled some like flying thing you know like some like flying umbrella. People were people were injured. People did get injured during that.

Not bad.

Oh. Oh, yeah. They do. They did get injured. Um, and it's uh it it's um I'm glad that you know at least medical folks were out there, you know, that uh um because it starts out as a skeleton crew, right, for for pre-burn, anytime pre-burn, and then once gate day, once Sunday hits, then then it's uh it's full fully staffed.

Mhm. Um but yeah, people people get injured out there every

day. Every day. And it just depends on the severity of where they're at.

Yeah. And then I don't know for for many years and it's it's funny because now I think they actually have done something like this. But for a number of years I was it's always joking around on Playa. It's like you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to do Playa OSHA and we're going to have these like orange vests and we're going to go around and we're going to like slap the slap these like like fluorescent stickers and be like violation like OSHA violation. going to go to DMV and plaster on their windshields. And then like DMV friends were like, "If you have a

death wish, then go ahead and do that, but like do not do that." Like you will be killed. But then talking to um Coyote, he was like, "Actually, that kind of is my job now." And I was like, "Oh, I mean there's always kind of an an eye for safety, right?" You know, there's just so many not in terms of like or the organization, but just like the participants So like you know like they're they're janky structures you know like maybe not so much like the art cars but you know just the structures and the things that people make and they you know like making this giant dome out of PVC and you're like it's not a great material to build with you know like Yeah. Yeah. So I mean I guess they're I don't know. I'm just wondering if like over the years it's just like maybe like engineering standards have gotten better or or maybe there's like less injuries from like like structure collapses and stuff. or that's just kind of a constant

I I couldn't tell you that part. I don't I don't know since I'm not on that build side. I don't know. I just see what comes through our door.

Do you guys like I mean have like like trends over the years, you know? It's just like like in the last 10 years these these types of injuries have spiked where there's these ones kind of have like like the whole like you know where people would like oh they they'd hit their foot like a rebar or something and then like now people use like the lag bolts you know just Oh yeah. Oh gosh. Well, yeah. Because when I first started going out there, it was all rebar, right? And um so people would trip over the rebar all the time and they would say, "Okay, put tennis balls on top of the rebar." But then people kick the tennis balls off. Or you'd cut up a pool noodle, cut up a pool noodle, put that over it, and people are still not seeing things because, you know, it's dark out. I even tried putting out um this is a long time ago, I tried putting out um the solar lights around the outside and at that that time time they didn't work well because as soon as the dust comes and it covers the top of the light and then you don't have a solar light anymore, right? It's not absorbing any of the sun. I'm sure they're better now than they were 10 years ago, but at the same time, uh yeah,

that's what they put on the French maid's outfit and you have the duster and you go around, you know, dusting, dusting, dusting.

That's not really me.

That's why when uh people will ask me questions about like, you know, like you were saying, the the people the outfits that you see on Instagram, that isn't something that I feel comfortable wearing. Um, but I've never been that type of person. So, if you feel comfortable wearing that, absolutely wear it. Uh, if you want to wear something, if you, you know, you see people out there in like cargo shorts and a t-shirt, it's, it doesn't matter. You burn the way you want to burn. And all bodies are burner bodies.

It doesn't matter. Um, people um I think that's one of the things that uh is that that that things like places like Instagram, it it it's detrimental to people by just focusing on those

um the the more Instagram model type folks and not the people that actually go out there and have been burning for years. Um you know, so I want uh I want new burners to feel comfortable wearing whatever they feel comfortable in.

Yeah.

Um

I wonder if there's like a social media just kind of like the attention economy kind of thing where it's just like, oh, this is what's out there. This is what I see, you know? But it's like Yeah, but like we're saying like the reality, the everyday reality of just like you can wear cargo shorts. Like it's fine. Like yeah,

you can wear whatever you want. It's not a be I wore a pickle costume last year and I already have something random that I'm going to wear this year because I like I embrace uh the comedy of it. I guess I like being more jovial and enjoy. If I if I want to wear a dinosaur costume, I'm going to wear a dinosaur costume because it's not like I can do that around LA. I mean, I could.

Yeah.

But that's when you're off duty, right?

Exactly. Although, although I did have girlfriends who um they they worked at one of the hospitals in downtown LA and for some reason they decided to bring those big blowup dinosaur costumes and they were in the parking lot that's like this big three-story parking lot across from the hospital and they decided to have like dinosaur races and things. So, yeah, it does happen.

Well, that's I mean because we were talking before we got on the air about um like working in in healthcare and like I don't know. I I I find that like every patient every situation is a little bit different but I I I don't know. I like keeping things kind of like lighter kind of like will cuz a lot of times no matter what the situation even just like an an ordinary like kind of diagnostic thing like people are kind of like they're a little nervous you know it's like they're not sure it's just like oh you know you're you're sampling this little mask I don't know is it cancer is it not was like these things tend to just be cysts it's fine you know like but like having a little like joviality or being have like a little humor or just being like personable human making like a human connection like it tends to kind of calm people down you know I mean within reason you know there's some people who are just like

you just have to be very tender with them no matter what, you know. But

yes. Yes. And as any medical provider that actually interviews patients, you you know this. If you walk in and you are more relaxed, maybe that's not what that patient is looking for. They want strictly professional. You know, we change it up. Um

I I prefer more relaxed. I like to be that way with my patients, especially before surgery, because I want them to be relaxed themselves, not not to be as worried about the surgery. because and that I think that's a thing too with medical folks, you know, um we especially people have been doing it as long as I have because I've it's been over 20 years now. So, um you know it this is something that I do every day. This is their first time.

So, and it's happening to them and it's referring to the patient. And so, I think that uh

you know I that's one thing I've noticed with people that work ESD is they do enjoy the casualness of it, but at the same time, they are all still very professional

and um I haven't run across anyone who wasn't professional uh in our department.

Yeah. Probably wouldn't last very long. Yeah.

No, no, it's very uh you know, people people worry about that, but they have to remember that this is a very non-judgmental space.

Um and so you can come in like your friend with the bagpipe injury and it's fine. We're not going to judge you for it. you know, say that you tried something new for the first time and you didn't like it and you ended up with an injury or something happened. It's okay. It's okay. Come to us. It's okay. Uh we're not going to judge you for it because I probably have done something like that to us. So, I am not going to judge you.

Well, I think with with healthcare in general, I think there there is kind of like the the embarrassment kind of factor where you're just kind of like, oh, uh it's like, no, you dude, you should really go to the hospital, get taken care of like, "Yeah, but they're going to ask me questions, you know, like how how did I get that up my butt, you know, like or whatever."

Actually, I think I think burners are better. I think ESD burners are better at that than even the the um you know, default world medical because like I said, we don't dwell on it. We don't we don't continue to talk about it. We just be like, "Oh, did that was that patient discharged?" Yeah. Okay, cool. You move on to the next one. That's it. There's not there isn't a whole lot of lingering discussion. about people. We just want you all to be

healthy, happy, get back out there and enjoy your burn. That's what it's all about.

And I imagine like you the patients that you see too, it's just probably a different kind of attitude versus like, you know, like in the default world going to get some like the same injury like I'm tread Bernie man be like, "Oh yeah, no, it's just Burning Man. They'll understand." Whereas like your local neighborhood hospital, they'd be like, "What the hell did you do? Yeah,

like yeah,

our exposure like you were saying, you know, as we were talking about people coming from all over the world. So, our exposure to things uh and the nice thing about ESD is that I have worked with um you know opthalmologists, pulmonologists, people with these amazing different backgrounds that help so much out there because you know we got ply eyes, ply throat, ply lung, all of these things where the dust affects all these different areas. Then you have these medical professionals that come out there and that is their area. That is their area of study and then they're actually able to help the patients better. And that is a nice thing too. So we'll have like an orthopedic surgeon and we'll have um you know an ER nurse. ER nurses are the best. You and ICU nurses, I love you guys so much because you can like shoot an IV across the room and get it in a dehydrated vein. Love you guys. Um you know,

but I mean is it like a it's not exactly like a full full service hospital like like one of the questions I had was you know my the department part where I work is the pathology I was like you probably don't have a lot of need for pathology on the play right

no but if you wanted to come work if you wanted to do it you could always work as a greeter

and we love our greeters too so I had a um a girlfriend that worked with me she's she's a nurse and she was already had I think seven years of experience or something

her fiance was a secondyear resident so because he hadn't had the exper experience of an attending yet.

He couldn't actually be a clinician,

but so he worked as a greeter

so that he so that they could work the shifts together and they had a great time. So, uh, being a greeter is is I I love our greeters. Our greeters are wonderful people and it's the same with our folks that come in from ESD. Everybody works. They come back year after year after year because they love it. I haven't really

uh we don't have the oneoff people unless they just come in, they try it and then they don't come back to Burning Man. I feel like most people come back and that's I'm I'm excited. So like you know some of us have reached out to each other. We know the shifts that we're working on Friday. I'm working with one of my friends that I haven't seen since she wasn't there last year. So I am super excited that we're actually working together on Friday. Uh our shift on Friday. So I'm you know it's it's just nice to see the same people the faces coming back again and again. And the nice thing is cuz you know cuz you're a burner you've been doing this for a heck of a lot longer than me. Trying to find someone on the playa is is like sometimes just absolutely impossible. I've had friends that you know they're like, "Yo, come find me."

Yeah, you're you're not going to be found. For the most part, you probably are not going to find that friend. Um so, but working a shift together, we will see each other.

We know where that person is. So, it's great.

So, do you does uh ESD like have a an overstaffing problem. I mean, are you guys like like every year like looking for people? It's like, yeah, we know we we need more like, you know, medical professionals. Or are you saying is like is there always just kind of like a a bubbling up crop of people like, "Oh, I I want to come work with you guys."

I mean, you have the the chiefs and the higher-ups would be able to answer this a lot more than I would.

Um,

but there's no like staffing shortage or anything. Yeah,

I'm sure that there are staffing shortages to a certain extent. Um because you you never know uh if someone is not going to be able to make it last minute

uh you know because things in life crop up, right? And then you just can't go. You're sick or you know something about your child or whatever.

And so now those three shifts are unstaffed. And so I uh they always

are looking for good qualified people to staff and That's the thing too because they have these parameters that they have to staff within. So you you know like um my friend's fiance

could he as a secondyear resident come in and do ESD? Yes. But it's not so they do everything under the state of Nevada.

So it it all depends on what the state of Nevada will allow.

So I was just thinking about like oh come like work at Rampart do like greeters like no. I don't know about greeter, but like do you have like a like a joke like billing department?

Absolutely.

It's like take a number, sit down, you're going to be here for a long time. And then they have like this big thing. It's like, okay, list your assets. Like whoa. You're like, how much is this going to cost me? You know, like because I imagine it's like there is no billing department. There's no billing. Like Yeah.

I think I think people who have been there before would probably find that humorous. And then people if it was their first time cuz you know we have so many people it's their first time coming in there, right? Um go they they probably be but Jen said it was free.

Yeah. It's kind of like the like the Brady Bank complaint department, you know, it just be like this empty desk out in the middle of the PL like what are they getting here? Like I got some complaints here. It's like it's like Yeah, I'm just not sure people department.

Yeah, but the Rampart billing department like oh yeah,

it's like we have this big stack of foreign cuz you got to fill them all out. Like what?

Actually, have they ever have they ever uh speaking of a complaint about has anyone ever made that into an art piece?

I've heard of various different people doing things like that just like at their camp, whatever. And I remember one year just think just getting some old desk and just like like a little placard on just saying complaints department and the little sign with the clock like we'll be back at, you know, and then just just leaving it out on the play and people just being like, you know,

I've been waiting here. No, but I mean it would be like I think that so if some artists out there you thought about it if you collected all of those you have a complaint box with a with a piece of paper and a pencil and you collect them all and then you burn the art.

Yeah.

At the end I mean I think that's an amazing little art piece for someone.

Yeah. Or you could even have like a kind of ceremony at the end where it's like oh it's like okay and you know gather around crowd you know and you have like be a boulevard and it's like we've collected the complaints this year's complaints. Let us read them. Number one, you know, then you start like reading them off. That would be hilarious.

That actually it would be interesting to hear some people are complaining about to the fire. Okay, that one's dealt with.

Yeah, it's going to be like there was too much dust.

Yeah, I didn't have an art.

I thought you guys were going to feed me. Yeah,

I woke up in Reno.

Exactly. You need to give me a ride back. Call the medical people at Burning Man in heaven. Give me a ride back to fly.

But it was

I guess

one of the principles it's like radical like responsibility or you know

reliance like yeah it's like

radical self-reliance. I I swear. So so that is the reason why I started this channel was after the 2022 burn and we came back from co um and I just you know that I left that burn saying that I was never coming back that I was never ever going to do this again. I am done. You know, sitting in that 12-hour line trying to leave. And I was just like, I'm done. And it was the hottest year on record. It was 103 degrees one day. Uh and we saw it. It was the amount of dehydration and then of course you had all of the ply dust issues because of the winds that year and the the dust. It was just incredible. Um just And people were just so unprepared. The newbies, the newbies were so unprepared that the even veteran burners came back. They're like, "Oh yeah, I forgot all that stuff in the storage shed." And you're like, "Oh my god." Um

well, don't you like prepare for the last year?

Cuz I remember like one year we went and it was like the year before was super hot and then the next year we're just like I'm just bringing like just shorts and no t-shirt, nothing. And it was like 40° at noon. It was that cold. We're like, "What happened? It's not supposed to be cold." Like,

well, also like people, like I said, they're seeing stuff in social media and they're just like, "Oh, it's this big party and I'll be able to party, you know, like the sunrise sets like a robot heart and I'm just going to be having fun and and there's just going to be these like large banquetss and

it's like no,

it is a party. It's the best party in the world. It really is. It's the best party in the world because of all the ways that it is a party. And it's because of the people coming together and it's because of the art and and uh the mutant vehicles and you know it it that makes it it isn't EDC, it isn't Coachella, it isn't um you know so I think that's the reason why a lot of people come and they're not fully prepared.

And so that's those are the things that I would I would absolutely say with this because 2022 was a year too where we saw people that just forgot their meds or just decided that they weren't going to take them for a week and you're just like oh my god. Gosh. And you had so many people with still COVID and um we had we had a few camps at the same time. They all had food poisoning. So everyone's already dehydrated because it's so hot and now you have food poisoning. And yeah, it was just so I I mean if I could say anything to burners coming out and this would be more for the new burners and the bedroom burners, but

please make sure that you bring more food and water than you actually think you need. Make sure you bring your electrolytes. Make sure that you have your water. And I think 2022 was also the year the ice trucks couldn't come on the Playa because of the dust. So the people who are drinking the ice melt.

We because I remember we

that was their source of water and which is a wonderful way to get around that. I think I mean that's but drinking you could drink the melt, right?

So people are drinking the milk. I mean if you're if you're coming from planning going I'm going to be there for 9 days and I'm bringing two gallons of water. You're like what? Like like that crazy or they're just like well no I take showers every day like three and then we go through this enormous amount of water. I mean like could be that too, right? Like

I Yeah, I don't know what their situation is but just you know we just saw so many cases of dehydration that year and I think it's just people just weren't uh they just didn't bring

the right amount of supplies. And that goes back to that radical self-reliance. Um, also food.

If you have any type of food restriction at all, make sure you bring that food with you. If you have to eat gluten-free, make sure you please bring out gluten-free food. You can't you can't rely on, you know, XYZ camp to bring certain things for you. Even though they might be a gluten-free camp,

you never know what might happen that day. And now you, in addition to all those other campers, are going without meals. So, you always have to bring um 2023 when we got uh I was in the station when the rain happened and we couldn't leave and there was no food for the staff because because they'll give us a meal during our shifts, right?

Um one of my uh clinicians was vegan and we didn't have anything and because they didn't bring anything with them, they didn't have anything to eat and it was a situation of course because of the rain and the mud.

Um

commissary doesn't deliver.

Well, not during that. Our poor EMTs were on foot that year. They're walking around on foot to calls. Yeah.

Wow.

Those amazing people out there.

Those the mules like the little uh four

the QRVS.

Yeah.

Yeah. They have them, but they still No, not in the mud like that. No. So, when it happened again this last year, thankfully it wasn't the same as 2023. Um

and but yeah. know so one of my questions yeah was um the question of like just malnourishment you know cuz like I mean I don't know I have this sort of joke you know with people that I don't know for many years going to bring it like you know we we'd make a list of all the food we want and then you would go out and we'd shop and we go to Costco or whatever and then then you it's like we're like oh but then there's this package of Oreos and then you just you want to bring in so many things and like at the end of the the week you're like

we still have like most of this stuff And then we're like the the joke is that it's like what if like what if

you only brought the amount of food that you actually ingested like people would think you're insane, you know, like it was just like that's like one sandwich a day

and uh

you know like one can of soda water. It's like that ought to do it, right? You know, like but I mean because I mean

there's this we I call foraging. It's like you can wander around and like oh look they have hamburgers over there. It's like you know it's like you can get stuff like all over the place. But and then the whole applia provides thing, but it's like yeah,

you can't have like 60,000 people relying upon the other ghost 60,000 people, you know? It's like freaking nothing. But like, so how many people show up at Rampire just like malnourished or like

or does he not really see that?

I mean, it's not really malnourishment. I mean, it is, but it's more, you know, I I need people to make sure that they get in the appropriate amount of calories. And if you just have to bring bars with you, bars. So, you make sure that you're out there because the amount of energy that you're expending, you want to be able to replace that. But, um, the thing that I see the most is the dehydration or that I would say, I mean, you might you might get a different answer from someone else, but, um,

uh, dehydration is is a huge factor out there and you need to drink water and you need to do it with electrolytes and make sure that you there are different types of companies out there that will have the electrolytes that will be good for you. Some have low sodium, some have no sugar, some have that. So depending on what you need, yeah, your medical needs, you can find one that works for you. Now, of course, um there have been studies as to having sugar in your electrolytes, your gut absorbs it faster. So if you want to feel better, but if you're a diabetic, don't take the one with the sugar unless maybe your blood sugars are low. You know, it it all it's all dependent on the person. Yeah.

Health.

Well, also like you're saying it depend on the person. So like I mean there's there's young people, there's old people. There's some people that are like like for me I I live in Hawaii and so it's like I'm used to like kind of uh sea level uh pretty humid,

you know, going to like what's it 5,000 foot elevation, you know, alkaline like like desert and and it it takes like a good two or 3 days of just like just just acclimating, you know, and I know people like They hit the play and it's pretty immediate and they're just like, "I'm a Burning Man. Woo! Let's party party, you know. Where's that ball tequila?" You know, it's like, "No, it should take a couple of days. Looking at your body." It's like, "What do you mean?

I'm here for fun, you know, like,

yeah,

I'll go to Rampart later." You know, it's like, "No,

I mean, granted, I I've had my all night venders there, too. So, you know, you just keep going and going and going." Um, I'm glad I didn't do this in my 20s. I'll say that I'm glad I didn't do in my 20s because I would have been I absolutely would have been hooked up to IVs and and everything.

Woke up in

Oh my lord. Probably would have woken up in Reno. Absolutely. In my 20s nightmare just like your eyes are like why is it so bright?

Yeah.

Like what am I wearing? What is this smock? Like

like can you tell us your name, sir? It's like well I don't have my ID. You have nothing. You be like like how you get a I didn't even get in contact with anybody. It's like I know even if you remember someone's like phone number, which probably nobody does anymore, you know, like it's like, oh yeah, call my brother like on the on the ply out like he's not going to pick up.

Yeah. No.

Yeah.

There is um there's that emergency line though, right? There's the the email that you could if you need to get in contact with someone doesn't mean they're going to be able to find the person through the But uh but at least you can actually try to get a message out uh through I don't know what it is. I would have to look it up. But there there is an email address that if you're trying to get a hold of someone there's if if it's an emergency

and you can't reach them, but it kind of it's kind of like the post office, right? I don't know how they're delivering all the mail on the play.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't think it's meant for like regular deliveries. I think it's was a special delivery or something maybe like Yeah. Yeah.

Do you mean for postal deliver? Oh, the post office. Oh, the post office. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're they're making deliveries of like notes to each other and and

Oh, there's only Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, I thought you were just like, "Oh, I only want to bring so much stuff and I'll have the rest of it just ship there, you know."

Oh, absolutely not. No,

absolutely. Could you imagine the Amazon truck shows up? Oh, god. No. Some people Some people would use that. Some people

got a delivery from Timu.

Oh, God. God,

it's leaking all over the play. Like,

yeah. So, what advice would you have? What would be kind of like the top couple of things that you you tell people? It's like, okay, like if you're going to Bernie man, like this is my experience as a nurse. It's like it's like things to either look out for or to prepare for keep you out of trouble medically.

Bernie man organization has a survival guide. I think more people need to read that and reread it and also read it again because it is packed with information. Uh other than that, there are the forums, there's Reddit, there's there is uh Facebook, and there is the burners uh veterans and newbies no snark. I think that's a really really good place for people to start.

Uh there is a lot of good information out there. You could always ask me for information. Um you can ask there are other creators out there who actually are are willing to either give you the information or or find it for you.

Um there there are wonderful sources and I think that what my newbies

we love our newbies, right? We love our Bergens.

Um I really think that you all need to come out without any expectations,

okay?

Uh no expectations, but to make sure that you have everything that you need because of the radical self-reliance. I want to make sure that you have any medication you need, your food, your water, your shelter, basic things that you would need for survival because out there at Bernie man sometimes it really is about survival.

Um you're we're in an environment that we were not meant to be in really. So uh this the way I look at it because of the way that the weather the moon like Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But you just I just want to make sure that you're prepared for everything. It could start raining. I mean it sprinkle you know it sprinkles every But to actually have these big rains that we have seen in 23 and 25, uh these big uh wind storms, wind dust storms that we've seen in 22 and 25. Uh you need to kind of be prepared for everything and make sure that your shelter is staked down, that you're going to be safe. Um and make sure that you have a good support group, whether you are at a theme camp or an open camp. Make sure that you make some friends and know that people that you are around

because the support can make up for just about any deficiency, right? Yeah,

absolutely. Oh, I guess one other thing what I would say is that if you are arguing with your significant other or someone else in the camp,

take that away. Don't ruin someone else's burn by having that by dragging other people into whatever is happening with you.

And now I'm not this is not in relation to If you're having some sort of mental health

uh you know crisis or issue and you need help then of course please definitely get help because there's so many places to get that sort of help

at Bernie man which is wonderful. Uh I'm talking about if you're just having arguments with your person to actually take that away and try not to involve everyone else in that. Resolve that outside of uh of your campsite or your group.

Yeah. Yeah. I was I have another interview with talking with um Ranger Crow and we were talking about the whole like you know Bureau of erratic discourse and consent and everything and I was like I kind of see like the two of you guys working together and he was like what do you mean? I was like well if you can get like bureau of like discourse and and consent stuff like if if you can kind of in inculcate that amongst the community that makes the job of the rangers easier right it's like yeah I didn't really look at it that way, you know? So, it's like I imagine for like ESD it's the same thing where you're just kind of like if you guys can prepare and take care of yourself, it's like you don't you don't need to see us like quite as much and and like I said, community.

Yeah, for sure.

Um bring bring make sure you have your goggles to protect your eyes. Make sure you have a mask to protect your your mouth and throat. Make sure that you are protecting yourself from the sun by wear, you know, reapplying your sunblock. There are just so many things And that's why I think that the survival guide is so important and people just don't bother to read it. And

and another thing I was thinking about like it's like have some sort of clue about your medical condition before you go, right? You know, I mean, I think for the vast majority of people like what? I'm fine. I'm healthy. I, you know, I'm not saying it's like, oh, go see a doctor before you you go there. I mean, it's not exactly it's like, oh, I'm I'm going to, you know, uh the jungle in Africa and they need to get like a malaria shot or something, you know, but you are going to like an extreme environment and and just was it this past year like someone didn't realize they were pregnant and gave birth on the playa, you know, I mean and and they didn't know, you know, but I mean it's funny cuz so many people like, "Oh, that's so beautiful. Birth on the playa." I'm like, "Oh, no. That that's not at all where you'd ever would want to give birth." Like don't don't have these crazy illusions like no

I'm just glad that the mother and baby everyone was okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

They were transported off the play. So there go there's there's there's a valid happy ending like Yeah.

And then thinking okay well you have the birth but then there's like the death there's always been deaths at at Burning Man and some people there's been suicides you know whatever accidents whatever but um and And I know like Nevada's not a medical assistance and dying state, you know, but just imagine cuz I know that there's some people like some older burners who like just imagine like that like like people have this fantasy about giving birth at Burning Man. Like I imagine there's probably more than one person would just like like oh if I had a choice and it's like where would you like to to pass and just like I want to do it at Burning Man, you know? I mean I don't think that's ever kind of come up you know people like oh you're going to plan on doing that you know it's like uh what about everybody else who's got to take care of everything, you know, like it's not a thing, right?

Not that I'm aware of. I've never heard of anything like that.

Hopefully I'm not giving anybody ideas like Yeah.

Yeah. I was going to say I hope that it doesn't uh that isn't something that we see out there.

Yeah. All right. All right. Well, let's get to our last question. Uh so, what what has been uh the Burning Man's impact on your life?

Oh, good question.

Because you came to Birdie Man a little later. Right.

I did. I did. And I think that's probably one of the reasons why I'm able to appreciate it more

at this age.

Um, you know, I the impact on my life is

well definitely working ESD. It's a different type of medicine than I practice at home, right?

Um, it's kind of nice to go back to that clinic emergency type of medicine. And so I really really enjoy it. It keeps those those skills

fresh. Um, and I have been able to bring some of those skills in with me to um,

uh, to the default world.

I think also, um, the non-judgmental aspect of Burning Man has also, not that I ever really was much anyway, but I think that it also helps because you have this exposure to so many different people from different areas and cultures and um you anytime that you can open your eyes to differences uh you know that that type of exposure makes you a better person.

Oh yeah.

And so I think that that has definitely um been something that's been really good as well. You know um those 10 principles uh you know absolutely bringing those in and um trying to apply it in in in the default world life as well. Um, I even have uh the little symbol for the radical self-reliance. I have that tattoo because I want to be able to do things as much as I can myself

because there will be one day that I won't be able to. So, at this age, you know, I'm doing the things that I can

um as much as I can myself, learning

and I think that that really uh, you know, helps to uh solidify that.

Yeah.

Making sure that you are prepared. I'm not saying that I'm always 100% prepared for whatever happens out on the playa or in the default world, right? Anticipate everything.

You can't.

But um it definitely has made me more of a prepared person. Um and you know, I'm I'm very I'm very thankful for the um uh relationships that I've met out there, you know, friendships. Uh and I get so excited when I get to see these folks again uh working with them, playing with them on the play.

Is it a similar crew at Rampart every year or at USD?

Yes, I do see some of them, but because there are so many of us, I uh one of my friends, one of my burner friends, I will only see her for about an hour on one shift. So, um yeah. So, I know it's kind of crazy because of the way that that they sort of overlap. And you know, we'll pick our shifts of what what we need. Um like I'm not staying the whole time this year.

So um we we will we will pick the shifts that we need and then we get super excited to see uh you know who's on shift with us.

Is there like a lot of turnover in ESD or is it pretty much like fairly stable like people coming back year after year?

I would say that it's mostly stable. People love

love doing ESD. Like I said it's a different type of medicine. Uh you know you have someone who is a

um you know, nurses and doctors and PAs that might work in a clinic and then all of a sudden they're coming over here or they're working in the hospital and say that they work in a more serious area such as like oncology and then they come over here and you have this lighter type of medicine and it's just um you know it's a it's a wonderful experience. I love my burner patients and I am so thankful that the organization has something like this where I can participate in another way use the skills that I have have to actually help people in this respect. I think that if I just had to go out as a burner,

even if I just went out as a burner, I think I would still pick up at least one shift at ESD.

Mhm.

You know, just because I love what I do out there.

Would you feel comfortable or if you're like, "Okay, this year I'm just going to go to Burning Man. I'm just I'm not going to volunteer at all." Like, would you kind of get like FOMO or or whatever for you?

I would I probably honestly if I decided to go I don't I don't see I don't see this happening, but um well, I stop by stations too anyway cuz sometimes I'll be like, "Oh, here's station three. Who's working today?" And then I'll be like, "Hey, what's up?" You know, you you see someone that you know. Um sometimes I will just stop off at rand, you know, when you're riding through with your crew, you know, trying to get to god knows where you're going at this point exploring or

Yeah.

Where do you camping man? Is there like a ESD camp or or

There are no there are a couple of ESD camps. Um, but I have uh, you know, I I change things up.

Yeah. Yeah. Just imagine it's not like everyone's walking around in lab coats and you're like, "Doctor, doctor, doctor." You know,

no, you see you see the yellow and red t-shirts all the time. And then actually Rampart has fern camp and they have their own camp as well.

Fern camp.

Fern. Yeah.

They have a lot of ferns or is that the acrony?

Yeah, they do. There's plants everywhere. No, no, it's just it's just called Fern Camp. That's what would the F be something emergency response network. Yeah. I don't know. All right. Um, yeah. And let's see. Okay. Do you have any links? Anything you want me to put in the show notes or you said you have like your Instagram, like Tik Tok channels, things like that or

Yeah. And I have more information on my website as well. Um, I recently uh I recently changed the um oh, what's it called? The packing list. So, all of those links that were in there before, uh I I took all those out. So, I just wanted it to make something that people could print and check off the boxes as they have what they need. And of course, yeah, so I I changed all the the whole look where before it was all these links and I just like, you know, then then people get sucked into wherever they're at. And so, I I took I took all those off. If they want to see, there's some at the bottom. But otherwise, you know, uh just

So, what's your website? What's the URL?

Burnernner nurse.com.

Oh, burnernner.com. Okay.

Yeah. Yes. I I have everything up there. And then I've also got articles, uh you know, things that you can read about, things to pack for Bernie man, and how some of those even cross over from some of the other festivals like the camping festivals like Coachella.

Uh how some of those things cross over. Um you know, where you can use it for both if you do both or lightning in a bottle. You know, some of some of these Um

because a lot of it is probably not specific to just going to the Black Rock Desert, right? I mean, this could be like any kind of multi-day festival or thing event.

Yeah.

Yeah. Uh we just need to uh Well, you know, securing our gear is although Coachella has been has been through it the past couple years as well with their dust storms. Oh, yeah. They had their can because they don't they don't secure their canopies the way that we do.

Oh. Huh.

No, they just use those tiny little metal And so, you know, those canopies, they just take off like a like an umbrella just takes to the sky. They don't even they don't even buy the the vented um this is what I've seen. The all the ones that have taken off are not vented at the top. So, they just it just literally just takes off. And oh yeah, you should take take a look at some of the videos from this Coachella this year. My god, that did some serious damage. Kind of looked uh

What kind of structure does Rampire and ESD like have? I For us, we have uh well, ESD is like a solid um wooden shack

almost. It's like Yeah, they put it and then there also are the big um containers, the steel containers, like the shipping containers and we have supplies and uh one of them is like the IV station and um there's another one at the beginning when everybody's still building and you know they have occupational therapists out there, right? So that they're helping to take care of uh everybody who's doing the build. Oh, yeah. This is it. Just there are just layers upon layers upon layers of of all the people out there volunteering. So, I just I just love anybody who volunteers out there and gives back in any way, you know, DPW Gate, all of you guys. Wonderful uh wonderful crew.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, one last thing I was just thinking about because you're talking about like coming back to the your regular world, you know, in your job and and like helping you to deal with like your patients and and and yeah, like we're saying that like you know often you'll see people like and it's it's the worst day of their life but I mean and also people from like different backgrounds, different cultures or whatever. It's like you don't look like me or you have a different life. But like I think that's something that Bernie Band kind of helps you is like kind of crossing those boundaries and and making connections with people and like and then your line of work like like someone's coming to you in distress and you're just like you want to help put them like at ease, you and part of that is kind of crossing this barrier which is like no no no it's like I'm here I'm here to help you right and I think that's definitely something that Bernie man it's like kind of treats people where it's just like no no you can talk to the stranger you can like make a connection with people and that will kind of like you know bring their blood pressure down like

I'm safe like

absolutely

you spend the time with your with your patients you spend the time with

um sometimes you know at Burning Man you're out in the middle of the playa I've had conversations with people. I've had a a two-hour burner friend where you just spend that amount of time with them and then you never see them again. You might not even know their name.

Mhm.

Um and it that's just part of the beauty of Burning Man. You came together, you both came together for the time that you needed and then that's it.

Um

and then you'll see them next year for like one hour and you be like, I can't even remember their name, but we're like best friends.

I I actually a lot of the a lot of these I've never seen them. again, uh, you know, some of some of those conversations. Um, I I was thinking about that because I knew I was going to be talking to you. Uh, I thought about this conversation that I had with a doctor. You know where the you know the wet spot, right? Do you know the wet spot?

Wet spot.

That's where That's where the That's where all the volunteers That's the showers for the volunteers.

Oh, I've heard.

So, if you Yeah. Okay. So, it's called the wet spot. So, I was there and I was talking to a doctor and the the dust had kicked up. up. This was in 22 as well, so we couldn't leave. So, we just sat there and had a conversation for like an hour. Um, and we're both wearing masks and goggles. I have no idea what this person looks like. If if I've if I ever run into them again, I don't know their name. We just had this wonderful conversation. You hunkering down for the for the dust to get to dissipate and so that we could actually ride back to our camps.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

No idea.

But we had a wonderful time

for that hour. You know, you just kind of I think that in that burner way, you just kind of ride through it.

Yeah.

You know, people who have been doing this for a long time and especially people been like you have been going for a lot longer than me, you know, you just kind of you just accept where you're at right now and you either just kind of hunker down or you figure out a way to get out of that.

And um You don't really see the veteran burners uh uh they don't panic. If I saw a bedroom panic if I see Yeah. If I see a bedroom burner panic, then I will panic.

I don't see them. Yeah. If I if I if I saw them being stressed out and panicking, then I probably would panic myself. But you don't you don't see that. You just kind of look at the So, I would be for the newbies. If you look at the people who have been out there more than five times who have been through especially within the last what five years going through all the weather.

If they're not stressed out, just chill. Just go with it. It's all good. It's all good.

Yeah.

All right. Well, actually gone a little longer than we normally do, but uh but thank you so much. This has been a wonderful interview.

Thank you. It was really nice meeting you. Thanks for having me on.

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