EP 86 Absinthia

Episode 86 with Absinthia is out now! Meet Absinthia, who reflects on her transformative decades-long involvement with the Burning Man festival. The conversation traverses the evolution of the event from its early, unmapped days in the mid-1990s to the more structured, high-tech gathering it is today, highlighting how the desert environment fosters radical self-expression and community resilience. A central theme is the intersection of art and identity, as Absinthia describes how her experiences on the Playa led her to found a unique absinthe business and co-create the "Museum of No Spectators." Her tale is an historical oral archive, capturing personal stories of survival during the "mud apocalypse," the profound impact of the festival's founders, and the enduring spiritual pull of the Black Rock Desert.

IG: @absvermut

Photo credit:

https://absinthia.com/

Her new book: The Green Fairy’s Canvas

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Transcript

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They make the trek out to Burning Man for a week and a day. After a lot of work, oh, there's a lot of play. Party party drama, drama, drama. b****, b****, b****. Year after year, they come back to scratch that itch. They all say their lives have been changed. After many years, lives have been rearranged. That changes what this show is all about. You'll see the impact. of Burning Man up and out. So sit back, relax, and cancel all your plans. These are the stories about the shadow of the man.

Hello and welcome to the Shadow of the Man Show. I'm your host, Andy. Is this a hallucination? No, it's that Andy. 

Today, our guest is the one and only Absinthia, welcome.

Thank you. It's great to be here.

So, when was the first time you ever even heard of Burning Man?

Uh, that was in the fall of 1994, back in the 1900s.

Wow. I

There were dinosaurs and the world was in black and white.

No. No. But there were no blinky lights yet.

No, there was a lot of glow. sticks.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't think people really even use glow sticks anymore, right? Like it's just moo now, right?

It's just moo. Exactly.

Yeah.

So, I had recently moved from New York City, which is where I'm originally from.

Um, I went to NYU. I studied photography and I got really tired of the city and had visited San Francisco as a kid and decided that I was just going to up and move there. And I was at the time you could still rent dark room space.

And I loved color printing. And I was renting a color dark room in um South Park in San Francisco when I saw this image and I was like I looked at the woman and I said, "I don't know who you are, but tell me about this event and take me next time, please. And she did. And that was Barb Trout.

Oh. Oh, hold on.

Uhhuh.

I literally have this right here.

Oh my god. You have the book right there. I'm in it.

Oh, yeah.

I'm in it. You may have to turn off your background to see the actual image, but it's in the very beginning. And it's me and Barb's boyfriend, whose name I can't remember. I haven't talked to her in a very long time, but we're like covered in mud, naked, lying across the railroad tracks.

Let's see if we could if this

Yeah, that's me.

Uh, sorry. Watchers or

Yeah. Panther turn.

That's me.

That's you. Wow. Okay.

Yep. Yep. So, that was my first year at Burning Man 95. Um, she and I became good friends. We had that photography connection and then we had the Burning Man connection. And I was recently listening to to uh my dear friend just incredible speak with you

about her experience growing up on the desert.

Yeah. Yeah. That was fascinating. Right. Yeah.

Coming from New York City and the suburbs around it, I got out there and I had never seen so much sky in my entire life and I just absolutely fell in love. It was incredible. Like I still

whenever I go out to the desert and I see the old Razerback, the mountain range out there. I I I the only way I can explain it is that it makes my heart sink.

Mhm. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's such a special place.

I mean, it's also I was just um Well, and I interviewed a Will Roger actually your interview is going to come out like after his, but like yeah, we were talking about that how like you drive out far enough and then it's like well, you know, the heat mirage and and it's like oh that kind of mirrored kind of thing in the horizon, you know, out in the distance. Like you drive far enough, it's just 360°. It's like you see the playa down below and then the mountains up high and then this just donut of just heat shimmering silver like

it is just incredible.

And I've had the privilege of flying over the desert in um you know, you go down to the airport at like 5:00 in the morning, you've been up all night, you see the sunrise, and if the weather's good, the pilots are like, "Hey, who wants ride.

And so I've done that a few times and Oh my god, it's so beautiful. It's so vast.

Wow. Never done that. Yeah.

Oh, you got to do that.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's one of the coolest adventures you can have at Bernie.

Yeah. Well, and as we were talking about like beforehand, I was talking about like my my record for staying awake was like 72 hours. Like

and I don't know nowadays like in my elder years being 55 years old, it's like I took actually 13 years off of Burning Man and then went back and so now as like an an elder burner, you know, a burner of a certain age, right?

A burner. Well, you and I are the exact same age, so I get it.

Okay.

I used to party all the time, every night, non-stop. And then it was like I'd party three nights and take a night off and then it was like I'll party every other night.

Yeah.

But by then I was already staff and I had to get up in the morning.

So that that definitely, you know, made a made a difference.

Oh yeah. No, I've definitely learned the uh the wonder and splendor that is getting a good night's sleep, like waking up in the morning and, you know,

the first step is to not sleep in a tent.

I honestly have only ever slept in a tent. I mean, it' be nice to have an RV, but you know, it's like the extra number of thousands of dollars.

Yeah. I had um my last few years, I had this wonderful van um that Unfortunately, my late partner had had built for us.

Um he never made it out alive to Burning Man. His ashes came with me,

but um Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Um he was there in 2015, but the van came along in 2016 and it was so cool. We were both from New York and we had um decorated it like a Lower East Side tenement and we had pictures of like the Beasty Boys and the Ramones and faux brick walls and yeah, it was it was it was very cool. And um it did get hot, but you know, I had a fan and one year I had an air conditioner that was sort of weird to like put in the window of a van, but you know, I did my best.

Well, it works. It works. It works, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So, where in New York were you did you grow up? Like in the city or

I was born in Manhattan.

Okay.

And then my parents moved to Greenwich, Connecticut, which I just sometimes just feel like I don't even want to tell people that I hated it so much.

But it was like a sleepy little town when we first moved there. And as time went on, it became this like atrocity of wealth

like so many places.

Yeah. And um the minute I turned 18 was when I moved to New York and started going to NYU.

And okay,

I did v visit Greenwich for some high school reunion and I was kind of horrified. Like the old um pharmacy with a soda fountain in it was a Tiffany's.

Wow.

Yeah, it changed a lot. So, nobody ever go back there. But I do I do love Manhattan. Um I always lived in the East Village.

Um

I love visiting, but I never want to live there again.

Yeah. No, I actually grew up in New Jersey like Anglewood. New Jersey, like right across the bridge. Yeah.

And then Yeah. I went to high school in Manhattan. I was like 83rd in Park. And uh

Yeah. I was say when I was It was a little bit different.

Fancy address.

Yeah. Yeah. It was this little Jesuit school. It was like total of 200 kids. The whole school looked so like you know the you have a party like your whole class was there, you know, like every 50 people, you know.

Yeah. Back in the 80s.

Yep.

It was funny like watching Yeah. But it was funny. I was watching one of those like it was like those VH1 like documentaries where like it was like this was like the the 80s or something or like uh it was like New York City like in the 80s and they're like New York City 1980s highest crime period in New York's history. And I was like wait a minute. I was like okay now this is all making sense. That's why all those things happened. And then just like looking back and just being like how did I get through all that and just like all the stupid crazy things I did. Then also crazy things. The clubs we went to the walking home in the East Village in a minikrt and a leather jacket at 4:00 in the morning.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I didn't have the minikrt, but yeah. Yeah. And then now my son who who's 18, he's like just going off to college,

right? And so it's kind of like the other end of it. I'm just kind of like just kind of like, oh, don't don't don't do what I did.

Exactly. lucky. They seem much younger than we felt then.

Yeah. Although, I don't know. I think this generation they're a little more, you know, it's I don't know. Maybe like they're the Alex Katonsens of the world, you know. Just see what

a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. Cuz you have uh a daughter is it? Or

I have two daughters. There they are.

Yeah.

Yes. Uh Haley was um conceived at Burning Man in in walk-in camping in the honeymoon suite that someone had built. Uh, so she's now 24. I mean, she was born on May 30th, so do the math.

Mhm.

9 months earlier is is Burning Man time. Um, I was married.

Not for long, though. She came along real quick. Um, and then Alexa, who's changed her name to Pepper because, um, I named her after a friend of mine who passed away while I was pregnant with her, a very dear friend.

And, um, Uh, Amazon kind of ruined the name Alexa, so she's now Pepper.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

But Pepper is she it just suits her so well.

So, she's got a million nicknames. She'll be 21 in September.

Okay. Let's mess with everyone who's has this on on uh playing at their home. So, hey, Alexa. Stop that.

Yeah. Serious.

She was so cool about it at first. She's such a nice girl. She was like, "You know, conversation is hard. People need an icebreaker. They can ask me to put milk on the grocery list. It's fine." And then she was like, "I can't do this anymore."

I mean, I guess a close second might be Karen.

Oh my god, that'd be worse.

It was like, "No, I was Karen before Karen became Karen,

right?"

You know?

Yeah. Karen and Chad

or even like in New Orleans where you were living now, Katrina, right?

Oh, yeah. Oh my god.

Like time to change.

I was here for the 20th anniversary of that and I remember being at Burning Man. Um

Oh yeah. Was that Oh, five.

No, you know what? I wasn't at Burning Man. Pepper was born the week before Katrina. And that was She's She was 21. She was born in Yes. 2005.

Yeah.

2005. Right. So I remember sitting there nursing my new baby right after Burning Man. Not I had obviously didn't go to Burning Man. I was just giving birth, but um

wise

watching it on the news and just being blown away and then hearing about what um was happening with the burners and how they were all organizing to go down there and clean it up and that was really impressive. I if I didn't have a babies in the house, I definitely would have gone.

Little busy. Yeah,

a little busy. Little busy. So I Yeah. So I took a bunch of years off from Burning Man.

Um I went every year from 95 to 2001 and then Haley was 20 200 2002. It's so weird to say. And 2003 I missed. And then my mom took care of her for like 4 days.

And my my now ex-husband and I just did a rocket run out there. Um landed at um the Diox camp. What do they call that?

Dios that was our that was our Burning Man email list. Anyway, landed landed with a bunch of friends. They saved a spot for us.

We slept in the back of a friend's truck and then we got out of there. And then

I had Pepper in 95. We went in 2010. This was actually really fun. We went early. We went for build week. We got um Marian was like, "Yeah, I know you're not building anything, but I you know, you want to get your kids out there. I get it." So, we came for build week cuz Haley was starting kindergarten the following week.

Yeah. Yeah.

And we It was a big birthday for me. And so, we rented this giant purple RV and brought a nanny with us. us um and spend most of it in the RV watching the storms. Build week is always terrible weather and burn week is always good weather

usually.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so frustrating lately though. Yeah. The climate change I think it's crazy out there now.

Yeah. So my first year back after the 13-year gap was u 24, right? And so 24 was

possibly the best weather I've ever seen it. Like it was like maybe mid80s during the day, you know, and then like at night it was like maybe like 50s, you know, so it was like it was kind of like, you know, cool enough at night so you could, you know, have some nice costumes and during the day it was like, oh, it was like reasonable, you know, and

wow.

And then last year everyone was like, "Oh, the rains, the rains." But it's like,

h it's not like What I heard 23 was like where it's like raining for days and days, you know? This was like

that was my last year.

Yeah,

that was the mud apocalypse.

Yeah. Yeah,

that actually ended up being really fun. If you didn't

That's what everybody says. Yeah,

there were a lot of people who were panicking and, you know, getting their cars stuck and and getting out. I had um I was going in to take a nap in the middle of the afternoon. I was bored out of my mind. It was so muddy. No one was doing anything. And my neighbors came by and they were like, "Hey, grab a bottle of Absin. We're we're getting the uh the DJ the DJ's setting up and uh we're just going to have like, you know, Bloody Marys and whatever happens happens." And the entire 3:30 sector was at this party by dark and it went till dawnow

and I mean it was so so much fun. There was a girl running around with a spatula like getting the mud off people's boots. Someone was giving massages. Everyone was drinking, smoking weed, how have you know dancing.

It was so much fun.

My absent because my bar- aed absent tastes really good in Bloody Mary. So, I kept running back to my place and I at one point I dragged my fire pit over like Yeah, it was it was just it was non-stop.

I mean, I could just imagine

when I met these two kids, hang on one second. I I met these two kids who were it was their first Burning Man and the gate was already closed by the time they got there.

So they went around Jungo Road and snuck in over the tracks by TGO.

They snuck into Burning Man when everybody else was like dying to get out.

Wow, that's some dedication there. Yeah,

I love them.

Wow. Well, I guess if I don't know, we shouldn't be giving tips to anybody, but like if there's any time like it could be sneaky into Burning Man, you know, it would be when it's like really raining and no one can drive around, right? Like per perimeter be like, "Oh, no, we're stuck." Yeah.

Right. Right. Exactly. So, if you can get there

is the thing though.

Yeah.

Your car might get stuck getting there.

So, I think they actually parked near TGO and walked in.

H ended up at my neighbor's party.

Wow. But I can just imagine like, you know, everyone kind of like sheltering in place and just kind of stuck in their little water log tent or RV and all of a sudden it's like you hear like, "Hey, there's something going on over there.

Something's going on."

Like it's like all the heads just all of a sudden just like turn, you know, like

Exactly. Yes. Yes. And they had great DJs, too. And a big circus tent. I mean, it was just perfect.

Was it almost kind of like, you know, the the myth of like or the legend, whatever, of like the stone soup,

you know, where it's just like one person comes and another person comes and some oh I have this and then you bring that and all of a sudden it's like oh my god this is like some the biggest party

I have a great story that I haven't thought about in so long so I was part of a cyber bus

oh yeah tell the viewers what a cyber bus was

was in the late 90s it for people who don't know it it was this uh school bus painted bright silver with www got cyberbust.com on the side. And you have to remember the the time when I tell you this story because it sounds so archaic, but Cyber Sam, it was his bus. He had put a satellite link in the bus so that he could upload photos of all the parties.

And this is like in the '9s, right? Like

Yes. satellite dishes, there was Bluetooth,

you know,

there was no W Um, so he had followers around the world who were watching and waiting to see parties and photos. And so one day we're at Burning Man and we're in Cyberbuzz Camp. And there's this like huge um I think it was filled with balls, one of those like big pools.

Mhm.

And so everybody had to say what they were for the stone soup before they jumped in.

Oh.

So I of course was synth. Uh, my friend Maria was cheese and so now she's only ever called Maria cheese. Uh, my friend Kathy Girtz was um sauce, so now she's saucy. So like the nicknames from our stone soup stuck.

Wow. Wow. So turnup and carrot and like

Yeah, we had we had a little bit of everything.

What's up, turnip?

Stop calling me that.

No, everybody loved it. It was fine. You could call us whatever weird thing you wanted to the more the weirder the better.

Yeah. Well, that was back when like in early days of Brady Man because yeah, my first year was 96 and and I just remember like part of the magic was like uh you know people always say it's like oh yeah out here this is the default world and and Burning Man Band is like you step over that line and the then the play and it's like it's another place but like it really was because it's like beyond a certain point I think it was before Empire or something like the just cell phones just went out, you know, like there was no cell phone.

There was no s there was no satellite internet

satellite or the cell tower was built.

Yeah. Yeah.

And even now it get just gets so crowded that that cell tower just can't handle it all.

Yeah. But now everyone has like Starlink and stuff, you know. So

So annoying.

Yeah. But I Yeah, I just remember um I told the story my blisters would hear this a million times, but uh I bike up uh the cult of distraction like one year we had this thing called the the rumor mill you know so it was just like a big like kind of like bullet importance we had like these nine different topics and like a sheet of like acetate over it and like these like like dry erase markers and so and so we just had like these nine topics and it was just kind of like read a rumor leave a rumor you know and so people would kind of come up and they would just be like you like like write like all sorts of things you know

that's so cool I love that

yeah yeah because like who knows you know I remember one year people would just be like oh yeah you know princess Diana died and we're like, "Ah,

oh my god, that that."

And then like you leave and then you're just like, "Oh, she really did die."

Wait. Right. Exactly. Oh, she really did. I know.

Yeah.

You never knew if it was rumor or not because you had no internet. You couldn't find out the truth until you're halfway back to uh to Reno.

Yeah. Yeah. I think going back to the whole like Katrina thing in 2005, um that was with the first couple year or maybe it was the second year uh I started this thing called the regional information center. I don't know if you remember that it became the regional network center and then became part of like everywhere whatever and so

I do I vaguely remember that. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think it was like in center camp. So 2005 was in center camp. I think it was next to like media mecca or something like that. And um that year that was one of the years where it's like I was coming from Hawaii but I just did like a short like in-n-out. So I think I I flew into Reno like on a Wednesday. Wednesday like rented a car and then like I think like on like a Sunday morning like like drove back and uh I remember like Katrina hit like that Tuesday or something and I remember bring I brought with me like like newspapers and stuff you know because like back even like back then it's like you know there wasn't really internet or phone service you know and so I was

just jump on Google News.

Yeah. So I was just like hanging out in center camp at this regional information center and so people were like coming up to us all the time being like we we heard this like like like New Orleans is destroyed like and also I had these newspapers so I was just like oh check this out and so people kept coming by and I'm like what like no go to like media maker or like I don't know like info or somebody else was like organizing stuff and we're kind of kept pointing people like that way like you know but they're like oh no but you guys are like the the regionals or whatever and I'm like we're like yeah you know whatever like not in charge we are but We don't know what's going on.

Yeah. But then I

I actually started fly info with Harley.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Wow. Wait.

Yeah.

Was that because I remember God there was a story of um like 96 where like like there was some sort of like like information or like um ben board.

Yeah. That they wanted to like burn down.

Burn down.

Yeah. And she like stood in front of like you're to defend it. I know that story. So, yeah. So, the following year, um I'll never forget I was at a party in San Francisco. I had just broken up with Paul Addis.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

For the the listeners and viewers, like he's the one who burnt the man early.

He is.

Mhm.

Yes.

Um with that with that fabulous mug shot. That's definitely one for the history books. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Cyber Satan was his uh cyber bus name.

Anyway, so Harley came up to me at this party and said, "I hear you broke up with Paul. I'm thrilled. Will you work with me? I I've always wanted you to work with me, but I wouldn't do it with Paul as your boyfriend because he's crazy." And I was like, "That's That's fair. Sure. Reasonable. And yes.

And yes. So I um recorded the first voicemail for Bernie man's uh phone number.

Uhhuh.

Even before they had offices

when we were still meeting at Will and Crimson's house in West Oakland.

And um then I started answering questions at burningman.com and my job title was missing. information.

I love it.

And then we decided to um found a place where people could come like let's take questions at Burning Man and make it make it real, make it something on the play and center camp.

Mhm. Yeah.

And so, um at first it was just a little popup tent and some couches we had found on the streets of San Francisco. Um and someone had put had left like a lawn mower, like an old-fashioned push lawn mower with no engine in front of the tent. And so when people asked me like questions that I thought were really dumb, I told them to go mow the mow the playa and think about their question and come back and ask a different one.

Come mo the playa. I love that.

Yeah.

But generally, we were very helpful. Um we had Namba the clown um as one of our volunteers. Oh my god, he was fabulous. He was If you Have you ever seen pictures of the guy in Clown with the candle melting on top of his head?

I think so. Yeah.

Yeah. He was a very dear friend of mine. Um we have not stayed in touch, but um he wore a suit and clown makeup to work

at what we called Checkpoint Salon.

That was that was the name before it was Play Info.

Oh, see who is her But uh yeah,

looking up on your phone right now.

Well, I was trying to remember name now I'm like my hazy memory of like names like Yeah.

like

Yeah. His his clown name was so dirty.

Nambla.

Nambble.

Do you know what that is?

Uh national was it? Association of

National Man. something. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's where the youngster.

There he is. All right. I got it. Ready?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've seen that.

Wow. He was fabulous.

Did he really melt the wax on his face like that?

He never told anyone how he did that.

I've asked He never told anyone how he did it. No one was He would put his makeup on. on at Checkpoint Salon. But the candle thing, I have absolutely no idea. Absolutely no idea.

He did my makeup once.

You see it?

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Just go in get a picture. Alrighty. Nambla the clown.

Nambla. Nambble did the um the makeup and Stephen Raspa took this photo. Can you see?

Oh, wow.

I know. Look at that.

That is beautiful.

I was fighting with my boyfriend that year and he told me I I looked like I had jaundice.

What's wrong with your liver?

Like you just don't get it.

So 95 your first year. Um how many people were there? Like what 2000 or something? I mean was must have been fairly

So officially I think they say four 4,500, but it I think they're only counting bird night when all the locals came in cuz it was

Yeah.

It couldn't have been that many. It was half that size.

Mhm.

Um and what I loved is that people who I've met in later, more recent Burning Man years, the first question they always ask me is, "What was it like before roads?"

I'm like, "Why is that why is that the first question?

I go mow my lawn.

I go my playa.

What was it like before roads? That's

And I was like, I mean, we just got lost a lot,

right? Yeah.

Especially after the man burned.

There was the temple was burned, the man was burned. There were no landmarks and you just sort of wandered around until you recognized something.

Yeah, that's true. Cuz Yeah, cuz Yeah. 96 when I went Yeah. I mean, it was just people just camped all over the place. There was just this pies-shaped sort of wedge and the man was in the middle of it and then

yeah, you can kind of but even then like the man was like on hay bales

like wasn't even like that tall

you know.

Yes. The hay bells. I love the hay bells hanging out on hay bales.

Yeah. But most people just had like tents back then too. So it wasn't like you know

high-rise metropolis that we know nowadays you know.

Exactly. Exactly. It was like that town we were talking about earlier that started as you know this quiet sleepy little town.

Yeah. And that became very fancy

with like Elon Musk having I don't know his like

he he was always camped near the airport and there must have been like 40 RVs like surrounding this one area

even like back then.

No, no, no. This is recent

cuz it's something I heard some I don't know who told me this but there were like um you know in 97 when like the sheriff like took took all the money and I remember like at the end like Larry was like on this like soap box. It was like like asking people to like for donations and then like if you

I remember that $500. It's like they'll give you like a ticket to Burning Man for life. And I remember like pulling out like my empty pockets just being like I want to buy one of those. But like

that's same.

I was young. $500. Are you kidding me? I didn't have that money.

But my friend Curtis Coleman like he bought he got what he still gets them to this day. Like I know like a handful of people. They're just like

I know a hand did that too.

Like, yeah, I I still keep these tickets, you know, and I was just like,

I know, man.

Best investment your entire life.

Best investment in your entire life.

But something somebody told me, I don't know if this is just an apocryphal story or whatever, but they were like, "Oh, yeah. Um, Elon Musk was the one that saved Burning Man in 1997, like they were in the hole." And and so then like he just like gave them, I don't know, x number of tens of thousands of dollars or

it's entirely possible. I never heard that. I also don't think I knew who Elon Musk was back in 97.

I don't think anybody knew it. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I don't know if I'm going to believe that story. We we'll we'll put a little, you know,

well, you know, the rumor mill might be gone. You know, it's like there might be internet out on the Playa now, but you know, there's there's there's still

Oh, people still love telling stories. And that was one of the things that I that I loved before cell phones was that when something happened on the Playa,

you'd hear about it by the fire pit later,

right? And everybody sort of it was like it was like fa like Facebook before Facebook became extremely toxic. It was like Facebook where everyone was like sharing stories and telling what happened and commenting, but it was in real life by the fire pit and back at camp

and

people just the stories gave you a sense of what was going on in the city.

Would you have like competing stories like someone would be like, "Oh yeah, I was out the pink elephant and this thing happened. We're like, "No, no, I was by the pink elephant and this the other thing happened." It's like, "No, no, like you,"

right? And then you try to figure out, everyone's like, you spend two hours talking and drinking beer and trying to figure out like what actually happened and then someone else comes into camp and they're like, "I saw this thing by the pink elephant."

And you're like, "We've been talking about that for two hours now. Let's let's add that into the conversation."

And someone came up and it's like, you know, I saw these three Pink elephants out there.

Wait, there were three? I was there yesterday and there was only one. Did they build more?

It didn't turn around,

right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Silly silly silliness.

So, how long did you do um or work with Play Info for?

Um pretty much until I got pregnant.

Mhm.

So, there there was several years in there and then Yeah, I just got really busy with kids. Um, took the kids in 2010 and then started going back right around the time that I left my husband in 2012 and went every year. I did not go um during the pandemic, but um went every year there was a Burning Man until Mud Apocalypse, which you said was 20

23 I think.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

Yeah, cuz I think 22 was like the hot year. Oh my god.

Yeah.

Oh, it was awful. It was like It was like New Orleans weather. It was humid was the thing.

Humid? Really?

So, yeah, it was humid.

It was terrible.

Doesn't sound good.

Yeah. Yeah. Like I can deal with the heat

as long as it's dry. Like Yeah.

The dry heat. Right. Exactly. This the humidity here. I just keep like in New Orleans or at Burning Man that year. I just keep telling myself like it's really good for my skin and my curls. And and then I sit inside. I look at my backyard and I'm like,

well, you must have a similar experience to me like when going to the play cuz you I live in Hawaii. You live New Or it's basically kind of sea level, you know, maybe within 100 feet of sea level.

Once I moved to New Orleans, I stopped I stopped going to Burning Man.

Oh,

I haven't been back. So I've only ever gone as a resident of San Francisco or Oakland.

Oh, well that's almost sea level, too. You know, it's like But you know, you go to like the

and all of a sudden you're at 5,000 ft.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's super dry,

right?

You know, so it like it takes a couple of days even sober. Even sober, you know, like to get like acclimated,

but you know, it's like if you hit the ground like, you know, with a bottle of tequila, you know, it's might take a little bit longer, you know.

Yes, absolutely. Well, I I am lucky in that I am so I'm an Ashkanazi Jew, which means that, you know, my my ancestors originally came from Israel and then um one generation mixed with the Mediterranean.

And so I I get out into that desert and I feel fine. The the altitude takes me a day.

Mhm. Yeah.

But I I just love being out in the heat. I don't burn. I just get golden, you know, and um it just it just makes me happy, you know. And I and I love the warm nights like living in San Francisco and Oakland for 30 years. The one thing I miss from where I grew up was, you know, being able to run around in the same sundress at 3:00 a.m. that you were wearing at 300 p.m.

Obviously, you can do that here in New Orleans, too.

Yeah.

You can't do that in San Francisco.

Yeah. I just remember I have memories of living there like it'd be like a Saturday morning. We'd like wake up and it'd be like just a bright blue sky, you know, be like a beautiful day with the shorts, t-shirts, like let's go out and wander. We lived like like Noi Valley. Like actually was the top of the hill of like um

god, what was it? 22nd in Castro.

Oh. Okay. Yeah.

So, yeah. So, like right on the top of the hill between the Castro and like Noi Valley and and so we would just my wife and I would just put on shorts and t-shirts and we would just wander, you know, we and then and then roughly around 2 3:00 or something, you know, it's you notice like

well the sky is like still blue, but then you look towards the west and you're just like it's kind of a shadow over there. It's like just a fog like like rolling in like oh no. And then we would just like be like running to like get back.

Yeah.

Cuz like Like here it comes.

Here he comes. The blob the blob of fog is coming.

Yeah. And then as soon as it hits you like the temperature drops, you know, you're like now I'm freezing cold like

Yeah.

Yeah. I remember I used to work in Powell Al. So I'd take the cow train and so it would be like bright and sunny and you'd be on the train and go and you just be looking out the window. You'd see this gigantic bank of fog and then

as the train kind of like enters the fog, it like the whole thing was like, you know, You're in a new reality now.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, no fog on the plier, though.

No. Well, sometimes. I mean, you never know. It's not really fog. It's It's white outs.

Yeah. Yeah. I could deal with that with, you know, good goggles and a respirator. You know, it's

friending finding a friend with an RV and just partying inside the RV till it's all over. Those are actually some of my favorite memories.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember one year like trying to leave and there was like some nasty accident on 447 and I don't know we were like like three or four cars from the entrance and they it was just closed and so we're like well

I guess we're not leaving. So we just kind of turned around and went to like a friend's camp and

there you go. Perfect.

And they were just like oh we'll just leave the next morning and I remember just like sleeping on and it was like some dust storm that came through and I just remember like waking up in the morning and then just having like a half inch of dust just like all over me just feel like

Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to turn around once you're in in Exodus because everything's packed.

And so you turn around and you don't want to unpack cuz that took half a f****** day.

Yeah.

And it's exhausting, but you don't want to wait in that line. Yeah. I

Well, back then there wasn't really a line.

Oh, there was just a accident and a close gate.

Yeah. Well, I think Also, we left before the temple burned. I think it was like Sunday or something.

But, but nowadays it's like anytime after the man burns until what, like Monday night, Tuesday morning or something.

It actually starts before the man burns. People try to race out of there.

Wow.

I don't know. It's crazy.

Yeah. Then last year me and my brother went and we actually we finally fulfilled one of our lifetime goals. So, Saturday morning.

We just packed up and just left. And there was

like I've seen that man burn. The man will burn without me.

Honestly, I haven't watched the man burn out like on the play. I don't know maybe it's the early 2000s or something like the past number of years. It's either like watch it from like our camp or like like way far away or

so I top of a container or something. in 20 I believe it was 2016 maybe it was 17 I now will not watch the man burn on the inside the the pia side of esplanalon esplanade esplan there's an esplanade here in New Orleans and so I'm it's okay

yeah confused my brain but anyway

I had gotten um inner perimeter passes from Marian in either 2016 or 2017 And um

yeah,

we were there. We were there. It was beautiful. We were right there with all the fire spinners. It was my friend Dollface. And we were just having so much fun until that guy threw himself in the fire

20 ft in front of us.

We saw the whole thing.

Ouch. Wow.

Yeah. So PTSD. Yeah. We saw the whole thing. And you know, it's crazy. I My most visual memory of that event is seeing the fire in the background and a silhouetted um Sandman, big guy, right? Wearing wearing all his gear, just drop to one knee and put his head in his hands.

Wow.

Yeah. And most recently, I was talking to a friend of a friend and they were like, I know who that was.

The runner

or the salmon? No. Sandman. She was like, "I know who that was. He was the biggest of all the Sandman. He like it was very by my description, she knew exactly who he was."

And she's like, "He came back to camp and was just wrecked."

So for the listeners and viewers that Sand Man is like that's like the inner perimeter because there's like the outer perimeter with like the rangers, right? Keeping the large large crowd back, like tens of thousands of people. Um, but this is like the inner

ring. to catch any might have to run.

The last sort of guards before the fire.

Yeah.

Yeah. And they are they are trained in this. I mean, you know, rangers rangers are great.

These guys, there's a reason why they're that close to the fire.

Mhm.

And yeah, they couldn't stop him. Um, we saw them drag his body out, put it in an ambulance. You know, they legally can't declare someone dead until they get to the hospital in Reno. Oh,

really?

But yeah, he was. We saw it. Wow.

So, yeah. So, then we're walking back to camp. I was working with Arctica. I was a shift lead at the time and we cut through first camp and saw Larry sitting alone by the fire.

And Larry and I, I mean, you know, when you and I first started going, it was so small.

Everybody knew everybody, right? So, I don't

feel like I'm named dropping, right? I just

We met everyone in in the early days. Everybody knew everybody and then I became staff. So Larry's sitting there and um one of the biggest fans of my absin

in the world. And I'm like, Larry, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm just hanging out. Crimson just ran off. I don't know what's going on. And I was like, so I ended up being the one to tell Larry Harvey.

Oh, really?

That a man had thrown himself in the fire.

And he was like, that explains why I Crimson took off at the speed she did.

Wow.

Yeah. So, I get back to camp and I curl up in my van and then my campmates come knocking on my door and I'm like, "Go away." And they're like, "No, get out here."

Mhm.

We need to hug you. You need to talk about it. You need to decompress. We're not letting you hide. Which was so just so amazing. And um During those years, Marian and I had built a um little popup just across the street from um uh like more like next door to Media Mecca, I would say, on what we call Route 66.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And um it was this green little popup booth that um I knew where the key was. And so every year I would go after the man burns, open it up and serve absence to every everybody. And I served I served Sergey from Google. I served Tip Connelly. I

um I served

this senator who was actually hitting on me and I realized later I looked him up. He was the one that um went missing and his his they found him

on Rio. Oh no, he was hiking the Appalachian Trail, but he was really in Argentina or something like

Right. Yes. on the beach with the with the top girl. Yes.

Like, no. He was really a Burning Man drinking absin with Absinia.

Yeah. I I I attract the weirdos. Let's just say that.

Wow. Wow. That's incredible.

Um, so the night that the that that happens, the man in the in the in the fire, um, oh my god, I'm getting like choked up talking about it. I ended up going over to um the the absence bar and open it up and I I did not put on a fancy outfit. I just, you know, whatever I was wearing at the burn was was what I was wearing. And I sat there and served people and um Marty Benson came up and she works with Bernie man's legal team and she had been in meetings for hours and she sat down and the two of us just

talked about our night. and what we'd been through. And it was just it was healing. We both felt so much better. We talked about it later, but that yeah, that was that was a hard night. And then the next day, uh, word came through all the staff camps that the BLM was not going to let us burn the temple unless we had a showing of I think it was 150 maybe 75 staff members showing up to be around to basically do the perimeter of the temple.

Mhm.

And I don't remember the exact number. Um I know Crimson Wood, but she at the end of the burn, which was absolutely beautiful. I have never seen the temple burn with my back to it

and watch the faces of the people looking at the burn and the way the light changed and hit their faces when the fire came up and the fire came down. And uh the emotions like it was so moving. It was so beautiful.

And um Crimson word came around later that we had three or four times the amount of staff members that they required. Yes. We just

we just crushed it.

Yeah. It felt so good to be a part of it. And then I did um Temple Burn Perimeter every year since except the year that I

crashed in to a girl on my bicycle and there was no way I was able to like kneel for two hours.

Yeah. Like this leg splint. I'm like, it doesn't doesn't bend. No, but it's interesting just like in terms of like looking one way versus looking the other way. You like everybody has the experience of like, oh, the thing's going to burn. Isn't it pretty? And stuff, but like you never even kind of can see that cuz I always knew about that. You know, you're you're working perimeter. I've I've worked perimeter on a couple of things like over the years and And and I don't know. I remember I was always kind of thinking it's like, oh, you don't get to see the thing burn, you know, but like Yeah, it's

special on its own. It's It's definitely different. Yeah.

And then you can always go back. People always video like you can watch them the temple burn later or whatever it is. There's always going to be video of it.

But just

I don't know. You like you talk to these people in your section before the burn

and um you know, you share jokes back and forth and stories back and forth and then you watch them. So you you're connected with them

and you watch them experience the burn and it's just it's magical.

Yeah.

So magical.

Yeah. I just I remember doing like perimeter and there would just be even though it was like clearly marked and there's a clear circle and there there still would be people just kind of just like wandering in just kind of like you know or just on a bike. just kind of going and you're like whoa whoa whoa stop you know like what what you know it's just like

I'm just riding my bike.

It's like you see this giant fire you see nobody else coming in like

I want to do that. So when the the whole like was it immediately noticeable like like like when the the person ran like was it like the the crowd was just like like a big gasp or something like did everybody even notice?

Yeah, he was not the first one to run in.

Oh,

the other there was like a there was like a a guy on a on a bike um just riding past and they they grabbed him and moved him out. Um so it was apparently fairly common, but this guy

was determined.

His name was Aaron. I don't remember. He was determined. He was going in and he was a scrappy little guy. Like they could not grab him.

They had him at one moment. He got away and he just Uh

back boom into the fire. Was terrible. It was absolutely terrible.

Wow. Well, anyways,

wait. Let's not linger on that.

But yeah, I mean there have been, you know, the highest highs and the lowest lows.

Mhm. But then like more recently like um so I also interviewed uh John Jennifer Marks, you know, where you work with um with God, what was it? again was it with the I'm trying to remember

play name

uh I don't know what was this play name but um the the Museum of No Spectators right like Yeah. So we'll talk about that for a little

Oh yes um John Marx I guess he I guess he interviewed as his his

alternate persona Jennifer that's great

well actually he the interview was he was John but you know he he has an al alternate personas. Yes.

Yes. Jenny.

Mhm.

Yes.

Yeah. Oh, good. So, you interviewed him about that project.

Oh, yeah.

Pretty man in general.

Yeah. We talk about all sorts of different things. But, but um Yeah. So, tell us tell us about uh Museum of No Spectators. Was that just that one year? Was it uh

No, we had another two years.

Oh, okay.

But it was a giant pain in the ass. It was so hard to build. It was beautiful. So, I was volunteering at the um no spectators exhibit at the Oakland Museum.

Mhm.

And I was actually doing burn perimeter for the Crucible uh instructors of fire dancing.

Mhm.

So, and that that was amazing. The kids cuz you know it was all families there. So, the little kids were great. I was like, "Okay, guys. says, "We're going to do this just like we do at Burning Man. You want to be like you're at Burning Man?" Yeah. So, we're going to make a circle right here. And they were amazing. It was their drunk parents that were impossible. They kept climbing over the kids and taking pictures. And I was like, "No, get back." And there was this one old guy with a camera and I was like, I was going to kill him. I just gave him the dirtiest look at one point cuz I didn't feel like getting up and interrupting again. I just And he looks over at me and his head goes down and he walks back.

Wow.

But at that event, I thought, you know, like this is a beautiful exhibit. And I'm in Oakland. I know a lot of Bernie man artists. A lot of artists were not included in this event. The gift shop, they were selling necklaces that I had been gifted. for free.

And the whole thing just struck me as odd. And I thought to myself, what would a museum look like on the Playa

and John and I had gotten pretty close at the time and I started texting him. I saw he was online. I started texting him the next morning and we had this amazing conversation. And by the end of it, I was filling out a letter of intent to Bernie man for a big art project. So with my idea and his architect skills, we put together the M museum with no spectators. Um,

so what years was that? Was that 22, 23 or something like that or

I believe it wasn't. Yes, it was dur was there during the apocalypse. That's right. 22 and 23. You're right. Yes.

So do you pick like the two like hardest like weather year?

Absolutely. Of course. I mean, why make it easy?

Wow.

Burning Man, you have to understand, and you know this, Burning Man mantra, um, you know, work work harder, not smarter.

Mhm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Those are the the the Black Rack City was is where like the best laid plans go to die.

Oh, 100%. Yes. But I'm so glad we did it. It was my first um large scale art project. I had always done more social stuff like you know shift lead at Arctica and I worked a year or two at Media Mecca and um you know I did the information booth. So this was my first time actually being part of a big build which was something that I it was on my bucket list. I really wanted to do this and I went from being staff to artist and that is Bernie man treats you very differently.

Mhm.

Very differently. Staff get so much artists. Not really. I'll be diplomatic and say that, you know, the artists don't really get much from Birdie Man.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's honorariums, right? Like, so some people get money, right? And then there's like art support services, right? Um

Yeah. But even honorariums are not 100%. They're they're a lot less. You still have to, you know, sell your home. live in a cardboard box to fund your art project.

Yeah. I think it's kind of meant that way, right? So like they want people to kind of like work work for it, right? Like

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I've also been involved with a bunch of like helping art projects with Kickstarters and and Indiegogos and stuff like that. Um which was I always love doing that.

Um

so what did people do at the museum and the spectators? Like so what what art did you have on the wall?

I entered through the gifting shop where we had stickers and necklaces and you could leave a gift. You could take a gift.

You could make a gift. We had paint and and markers and stuff. You could make a gift.

I like that.

And then the um you w So the the way the building was set up was that there was a straight line through open at the front. At the back was a stage

and you could set up we had a we had a sound system you could plug in and you could you could perform on that stage. You could do whatever you want. on that stage. We had poetry readings, we had a DJ, we had a a a musician just like struming the guitar. Um and and then off of that straight corridor, there were three triangular rooms.

Mhm.

Where we each room had a different theme. And um John Marks was involved with the um uh San Francisco Art Institute. And so he brought out some some artists who hung work. Had never been to Bernie man before. We invited other people to bring work, make work. Um it was it was incredible. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was

You think you'll ever do that again or have to?

I don't know if I'll ever go to Burning Man again.

Well, I'll never say to ever.

I'm 55. I've got Marty GR. Marty GR is like I call it Burning Man for grown-ups cuz It's wild and crazy and costumeumy and you can go home and take a shower and sleep in your own bed.

Mhm. Yeah. I mean, like I said, like I took 13 years off. Um like I think I'd been attempting to retire from my regional contact role and like put because my son was born in 2008 and then at every single point like after that I was like, "Okay, I need to take a break. I need to move on." And then it took me four years to finally just be like, Okay, I'm out. I'm done. You know, and then I kind of just cut the cord. Like I didn't even like follow anything on social media or or like on internet or for like

Yeah, that's like

Yeah. But then it kind of creeps back and you have friends and like oh hey then then you see story and you kind of like wisfully think like oh you know and then time goes by then it was kind of like well you know they get invitations like like oh and also I have a whole range of friends that uh that stopped going at the same time. And so I remember like kind of getting together with them and the you know over some beers or whatever like one of the favorite topics is always kind of like well if we ever went back you know it's like how would you do it you know it's like I don't want to go back I don't want to go back I don't go but if you did how would you do it

if I went back I would want to like go to a camp with um those fancy um composting toilets and a nice kitchen. and stay in an RV. I just I just want to be a princess once at Burning Man because I have worked my ass off for Bernie man for decades.

Mhm.

Yeah. But it really I mean it really did change the course of my life. You know, I I started as a shy photographer

and you know, a lot of my art now um my photographs now I've donated to the Nevada Art Museum.

Part of the reason for that was I just didn't want to haul it around anymore. cuz you know I move a lot.

Um,

so they had that and then it just it got me the first thing it did was it got me out of my shell and I learned how to almost just to be an extrovert,

right? So like my personality changed.

So you're more of an introvert before that?

No, to more of an extrovert. I became um like more confident

and and stronger. and found my voice.

You know, I mean, I was 25 at my first burn. I was really young. So, I actually I turned 25 at my first burn.

Mhm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. 26.

And so, I became a more outgoing. Um, I learned how to be silly. I um And then I after my second burn, I was back in San Francisco and I was invited to a cacophony society event.

Mhm.

And And it was a P wake by Miss P.

Mhm.

And um there was a coffin with a life-sized cake of Marcel

P and poetry readings and people crying over the coffin and a beautiful crystal bowl of this green liquid that they called absin. This was in November of 96 and I was terrified of it and I kept like walking up to it and walking away and walking up to it and walking walking away and finally I got my

you had heard of absinence before that like

no I mean I the word was sort of familiar but I wasn't certain and uh someone told me it was it was illegal and that I would um hallucinate and see little green fairies and I was like all right let's try this and I loved it I absolutely loved it um in addition to photography I studied art history at NYU and so it was really the history that got me into um that was my rabbit hole for absin and then I got in touch with uh Tom Chef who made that absin and got the recipe for him and that's how I got my start making absin

and I served it at a um a couple of burners bachelor bachelorette party in Port Costa. Did you ever get out to Port Costa?

Port costa where's that?

So it's on the delta and it's

Oh. I've heard of this.

Yeah. At the time, so the hotels I believe the hotel is still there, but at the time it was unrenovated.

It was ancient. The all the rooms had names of the girls who had worked there.

And then across the street was a restaurant with uh like a 999 steak dinner. And we threw some wild wild parties out there.

So I brought my my first it was a Victoria themed um party. So, I was wearing this beautiful green beaded dress that I had rent rented from the AC act ACT costume rental department and I'm walking in with these neon green food coloring colored bottles of absin made with Everclear. Um that was the recipe and um Hernand Cortez started calling me absynthia and by the next day everyone was like that is your her that is her name. No one may ever call her anything else. And so I became absentia and that was I didn't realize it but that was 10 years before absent became legal which by 2007 I was already bootlegging and you know using my absent to help Burning Man at fundraisers and giving it out serving it at media mecca parties.

Um and it became legal and I and I launched a business around it. So that early experience through the Cacophony Society and Burning Man essentially created my career and my passion.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah. Cuz I mean Yeah. I remember those days cuz I remember like you first hearing about absent like oh yeah, you know it's like hallucinogenic or whatever. But yeah, but then hearing about it's like oh no it's illegal. But then you know they're like well no you can get absent here, but it's not doesn't have wormwood or or something or it's like or is it just like alcoholic? But then yeah, then like I interviewed like Miss P and then like reading some like the cacophony society books and and talking about how they were like making their own absent and like I think it was like the the plants they they grew wormwood or or something. I can't remember like the the process, you know, but I was just like

Well, do you want to hear my early day process?

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

So, we used to go, my community and I used to go to a place called Camping Suns um up in Willlets, California. It's a few hours drive. It was a beautiful steep hill with a gorgeous garden and we would just you know camp out and party all weekends and I became close with Jane Camp

um one of the owners and she she was the one who built that incredible garden and so she started growing the herbs for me.

She was growing wormwood and uh anise and fennel. And I took those herbs home with me when we were, you know, go to campouts when the it was ready to harvest. And I learned how to make tinctures.

And so after a while, I found this really good grape distillate that I was illegally buying and combining that with the ingredients and um you know, it was fine. It was mostly drinkable. was really strong. Um, now I now I, you know, distill it myself and and and make it properly per like, you know, ancient Swiss recipes. Um, but yeah, at the time that's what I was doing. This is as close as I could get.

What is the origin of Absin anyway?

So, it's funny you asked that because I have just finished writing a book called The Green Fair's Canvas.

Oh,

it absent influence on art and culture. And so I've just finished up all this deep research. Absin was used as medicine. It was distilled by women in um in Vald Tra Switzerland in the late 1790s

and earlier and a man named Major Dubide purchased the recipe from them and his son-in-law was Henri Pernau. Oh,

and Pernau is the one who moved it to France because he didn't want to pay Swiss taxes

and credited a a hack of a French doctor for having created it because that sounded a lot better to, you know, at the time you didn't want to have a woman make it, especially women that were making it through medicine, which obviously that's witchcraft, right?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was going to say like men medicine women was like devilry like witchcraft. Oh. Exactly. So men started making it and the French soldiers took it to Alers for a war.

Mhm.

And were drinking it to offset the the the water that was bad. Wormwood is now used in malaria medications. So what they were doing was actually

correct. And then they just loved it and they brought it back and they and it just exploded in the in the Parisian cafe. kind of like tonic, you know, it would like like a jin and tonic, right? Because it was for the malaria like the

right

quinine or something like Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Well, back then it's like that. I mean,

it was before we had like things like the FDA, whatever, you know. I mean, there was like the original Coca-Cola like had cocaine in it, you know? So,

as it turns out, if you don't regulate alcohol, you know, people are going to cut corners. They're going to do whatever they can to make extra money. Um the same thing happened here during the prohibition. People were, you know, they were not cutting the heads and the tails, which you know, you really don't want to drink and just bottling all of it together and getting people sick.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

But no, the the real thing that happened against absin was a man named um Dr. Valentine Magnol. He I did not know this story until recently. This This is incredible. He distilled wormwood in steam,

okay?

And essentially created a neurotoxin and fed that to lab animals who had seizures and died.

So it's like, let's try this.

Wormwood is distilled in alcohol.

Uhhuh.

And so once you once you distill it, there's no more thug Jones left.

That's why 10 parts per million of thug Jones allowed in in absence. makes perfect sense. It was it's once you distill it, they're not there anymore.

Mhm.

Um but he took his scientific experiment to be that absin is dangerous and started talking all about it and you know he's a physician

who he must be right. People believed him and the wine industry absolutely loved this because then they could put their main competitor out of business and they did for almost a hundred years.

So Absin was like a main competitor to wine in those days.

Yeah. Especially because there was um uh feloxera and so there's a few years in there where all the grape vines in France had to be destroyed.

And there was no wine.

Oh,

that's when um the Sazzarak cocktail changed from conac to rye whiskey. Um that's when absin started being made with other things other than grape distillate. I use the grape distillate cuz I just think it tastes the best.

Mhm. Um, but you know, people started using beet alcohol and potatoes and grains and you know, whatever to make absent.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, it sounds like the uh the Burning Man had quite the impact in your life. You're like,

it really did. It really did. I mean, for a long time, all my friends were burners.

Only burners.

Um, I mean, I still have a lot of burner friends. I still keep in touch with a lot of old friends, but I'm not in the Bay area anymore. So, it's it's different. You know,

Burning Man is not it's not a thing at all in New Orleans. We have parades and parties almost every day here, you know.

Well, there's a is there a regional community there? Remember my friend Anthony?

He is. And I have not yet gotten into it and I keep telling myself I'm going to

you know, I've been writing a book and producing a new absent and blah blah blah blah blah. Working. I've been working.

And I also work at an absent bar in the French Quarter three nights a week. So, had a lot going on here. I absolutely I absolutely love it. I could not be happier.

Yeah. Also, I think, you know, there's definitely like a a life cycle for for burners, too. You know, I mean, out of it's something like over a million people now who've either been to to Black Rock City or or like the various regional events like but I think a large number of them have just gone like once, you know, it's kind of like you like oh bucket list and then they they don't like

and they've Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, as you go the rest of us like go and we can't stop going until we graduate. Burning Man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have to get you. Well, the t-shirt I'm wearing one of these.

Let's see. Uhhuh.

This is the the sticker.

Nice. Nice. I have a pile of Burning Man necklaces over in the corner that caused the jewelry rack to fall off the wall. So, one of my projects today, I've got a new rack and I'm going to re reassemble all these necklaces that now in knots and put them back on.

Yeah. But anyway, going back to like the life cycle of the burner. It like uh Yeah. So, some of them just one and done. Some people like uh I went three times and then but didn't really like get involved. They didn't volunteer or start a theme camp or or do any art and they're just kind of like after three years kind of like ah been there done that.

Been there, done that. I don't need to go out and camp in the heat and

then there's the rest of us you know like just keep going and go but but you got to get like involved. and do something. But then in terms of like the life cycle of the burner like

I don't know like some people get married, some people have kids and then like life intrins but then now I'm kind of experiencing like

the the tail end of the or like a further down the cycle where I'm kind of like okay well now now my kid's 18 and going off to college and the nest is emptying and it's kind of like Bernie man is like kind of calling like hey Andy Andy like hey I remember you. You know, so

I was able to go back when my kids were little because I got divorced.

Mhm.

And I had it written in my divorce agreement that I would have the week of my birthday off every year.

Mhm.

My birthday is at the end of August.

Ah, you and Andy Grace. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. She's just a couple days after me. I'm the same day I'm the same day as Jerry James

and Barb Tra. Barb Trab and I have the same birthday. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

Do you still keep in touch with her or

No, I haven't talked to her in years.

Yeah. I'd love to interview her one of these.

You Yeah, if you can find her.

Yeah,

she's great. Yeah,

but she is Yeah, she's 10 years older than me. Jerry James is a little older than that. But yeah, we're all We're birthday triplets.

Oh, wow.

Along with along with um along with Peewee.

Paul Rubin. Paul Ruben

has the same birthday as me.

Oh, I was say, "Did he go to Burning Man, too?"

Oh my god, that would have been hilarious.

I don't think anyone would believe it's like, "You're not really." It's like,

"Oh, I don't know. I mean, haven't you met celebrities at Bernie Man? They're everywhere."

Yeah. But no, that would be kind of a Bernie man like thing. It just be like, "Oh, you're just pretending to be him." Like, uh, yeah, that's my outfit. Like, yeah, that's right. Like, I'm not really him. Like,

yeah. Yeah.

I've seen videos of Katy Perry and Burning Man completely covered up from head to toe. You would never know who she is.

H.

So, you know, some people go out there and they don't give a f***. And some people go out there and they hide who they are.

Mhm.

You know, and that's fine. Like, I don't know how I would behave if I was a celebrity.

I think I might just want to be like lowkey and and have a good time and not be like gawkked at. I mean,

I heard like Larry always had like uh got like put on disguises and went out and

sometimes he Yeah. And when he wasn't wearing his hat, I didn't It took me a while to recognize him.

He'd come up and start talking to me and be like, "Oh my god, you're Larry." He's like, "I know I'm not wearing my hat."

Well, he also had that baseball hat, too. It wasn't just the Stson.

He did have the baseball cap. Yes.

Yeah.

Yes. And then he got his teeth fixed.

Yeah. People like, "Not really, Larry Harvey. Shut your teeth."

There is a story that that um his assistant, oh my god, what is her name after his stroke when he was in the hospital?

Mhm.

She put her name is going to come to me, I swear. She put absin on his lips.

Uhhuh.

He hadn't been conscious in days and he had like this physiological response. Everyone who was there told me that he his like eyes opened and he almost up a little bit.

Really?

And it was like the last

physical response to anything before he passed.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I loved his absent.

And cigarettes.

Oh, non-stop.

Can't forget that.

And talking, telling stories and and philosophizing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. If there's one person like I would love to interview. It would be for the, you know, the impact of Bernie man. It definitely would be Larry, but you know,

that do a seance for that or something.

There you That's an episode I'll watch.

Can you hear us, Larry?

Oh my god, that would be amazing.

What is this podcast thing?

The Ouija board is going like this.

What does 67 mean? 42. Always carry a towel.

Yeah. All right. Well, um, hour and 15, hour 17 now. Wow. It's been

a little over.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This has been a wonderful interview.

Absolutely. This has been fun.

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